Nihilists debating among nihilists...when will you people understand that without an objective moral compass you are asserting the validity of moral rules based only on whims and power relations.
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Morality: Where do you get yours?
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 12:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Care to demonstrate the existence of such a compass Chad? There's no harm in calling something what it is (even if it is less than satisfying for whatever reason).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (May 11, 2012 at 12:20 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Nihilists debating among nihilists...when will you people understand that without an objective moral compass you are asserting the validity of moral rules based only on whims and power relations. And yet...they WORK! Imagine THAT! What's the alternative? RELIGION? HAH! Yes, I think I'll pass on the moral teachings of a god who saw fit to exterminate almost all of humanity just for the crime of not worshiping him, thanks...  (May 11, 2012 at 12:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Care to demonstrate the existence of such a compass Chad?Not my problem. The implicit claim being made is that atheists can be good without God. But the words "good", "evil", "right" and "wrong" have no meaning within an atheistic framework. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to demonstrate the validity of any morality without invoking a transcendent principle or entity.  Quote:Morality: Where do you get yours? From my ability to reason mostly. To think and act rationally and logically.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them. RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 1:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Don't be silly. Of course they have meaning. They are words we created to describe a set of positive or negative value judgements with regards to human behavior. Look at that, I invoked human beings to justify human concepts. How hard did you think that was going to be?
Why would invoking a "transcendant entity" lead to objectivity? Pro-tip, it wouldn't. (btw, "validity" with regards to "morality", also subjective. You're welcome.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I'll humor ya, Chad:
Golden rule. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Bam. Done. It has no basis in religion and is a completely reasonable moral code. The argument by theists that god must be the definition of all that is truly good and therefore the only authority on good is an old and extremely tired one that has looong been put out to pasture, you'd be better off trying to argue the validity of the claim that the world was made in seven 24-hour-long days. (May 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Don't be silly. Of course they have meaning. They are words we created to describe a set of positive or negative value judgements with regards to human behavior.Not so. You invoked value judgements? Who's set of values? Society? Which one? America, Sweden, North Korea? Who's judgment? The Supreme Court's? The Muslim Brotherhood's? Tinky-Winky? RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 1:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Who's would you like to reference? There are plenty -ergo, subjectivity.
Is "not so" sort of like nuh-uh...?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (May 11, 2012 at 12:20 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Nihilists debating among nihilists...when will you people understand that without an objective moral compass you are asserting the validity of moral rules based only on whims and power relations. When will you realize that a) absence of objective moral compass does not imply nihilism b) god's "objective" morals are based on his whims and his powers in relation to humans and c) atheism does not imply absence of objective moral compass. |
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