Is Quran the proof of God?

[mr_j936]

Homophobia, and similar random prejudices, seem to be a very primal fear of people who are different in some way. I got bullied at school for simply refusing to act like everyone else. I must have presented some sort of weird threat in their mind, and they felt the need to attack first.

Is the Quran more homophobic than the bible? There is actually barely anything about it in the bible, way less than you'd think considering how homophobic Christians talk.

But what is the worst Christians do to a homosexual? Refuse to sell them cake? 

Muslims kill homosexuals, throw them over rooftops or bash their heads open with a rock, or cut their heads off with a sword. (the first 2 examples are from Iraq and Syria, the last one is Saudi Arabia and Iran) And before a wise Muslim shows up to tell me they don't all do that, I really have no been hearing ANY opposition over what is happening, no one is condemning killing homosexuals... It's only bigotry and unfair when it is against you isn't it?

[ApeNotKillApe]

I thought the question was pretty clear: What is it that's so immoral about homosexuality that it gives Allah reason to despise it? Why does an all-powerful being - a being who made up the laws of physics in his head - care so intensely about the sex lives of humans?

Because sexuality is not only a form of pleasure for us as humans its also the form of reproduction to continue our existence of mankind. If it were natural and acceptable in the sight of Allah He would've created 2 men to mate. But it is immoral and our bodies that Allah created show this as well. Now we are both adults and having an adult conversation so I hope u don't mind me mentioning the sexual organs we have. It is perfectly planned how the male's penis fits into the female's vagina and the semen carrying spermatozoa fertilizes the ova. When 2 homosexuals become intimate there is absolutely no way of possible reproduction because their similar sexual organs can't penetrate one another. Allah made sexual intercourse a certain way because it is the moral way to reproduce and continue the existence of human beings.

So what? What's wrong with sex for pleasure? Even when one has sex for the sake of breeding, millions of sperm WILL die in the process. Why did Allah design human sexuality as it is and then hate humans for expressing the sexual drives he gave them?

Why isn't Allah concerned with the sex lives of other animals? Why doesn't he condemn homosexuality in the animal kingdom?

[Sheed1980]

Do me a favor. Restate ur question for me with what u would like clarity on, and I will do my best to answer it for u my friend

I have a question. 7 billion humans and somehow lucky us you managed to find the correct god and the correct ancient book. That's fantastic. 

But here's the rub, seems a bit of a problem that your alleged "all powerful" being cant or wont get us all on the same page. Don't feel bad, Christians and Jews have the same problem. I still have yet to see any of the three give me a good answer. 

But here goes. Why would an all powerful being want or need human's help? If he can "poof" all this into existence, seems absurd he would need fallible humans to act as his public relations department? Are you telling me he cant do the work himself without your help?

That's an interesting question my friend. What you must understand is that God doesn't need our help for anything. He says in the Qur'an He is free of all needs worthy of all praise. So God doesn't give us this information and tell us about paradise and hellfire for Himself. It's for us as His creatures. It's nothing in Paradise that will be a pleasure to Allah nor anything in Hell that can hurt Him. In paradise The food and drinks, and beauty and gold and jewels and sexual companions, mansions, perfect weather, no disease, no sickness or ill feelings towards one another. Sweet fragrances, being waited on, etc. All of these things and so many more are things that God has created us humans to love. So He promises us by living the right life and worshipping Him alone, seeking His forgiveness when we sin in this temporary life in the Hereafter we shall have whatever we desire for all eternity. And the rewards will be so much greater than anything we can imagine. But He gives us a comparison of things that we can relate to in this life. Just the same with hellfire.  Everybody knows how fire burns and what scalding water is. So He explains in detail certain punishment so we have an idea of what to compare it to in this life even though it will be worse than we could imagine so we know what we want to stay away from

[account_inactive]

I meant the "wixy" part.

I was simply being silly with "You aint just whistling Dixie". If you haven't heard that one. It merely is saying "I hear ya, you are right".

Ah, my apologies.

[Brian37]

So? Hebrews and Christians have the same story, and?

Why all the drama? Is this god of Abraham of all three Jerry Springer? Is he the host of WWE pro wrestling? Sorry, but if you find morality in this story I feel sorry for you.

Maybe you should consider that Islam is simply a spin off of Christianity, and Christianity is a spin off of Hebrew, and even Hebrew is simply a spin off of Canaanite polytheism. Maybe you need to consider all three are merely inventions of competing humans.

The reason you don't rape is because it is harming another human being. The reason you don't hoard wealth is because it creates economic instability for the rest of society. You don't need the Koran or Bible or OT or Vedas or Buddha to figure out hurting other human beings, physically or economically is bad.

It's not my topic, Brian. I don't care currently if Islam was a cheap ripoff from Christianity : my context has "Sodom" on its name label.

Our brains are plastic. Our sexuality is formed by experience; please don't tell me you still believe our heads are static ?
When a society strips you of your sexual dreams and forces a certain scenario on you (which isn't natural), that is just plain evil. 

Our sexual fetishes also grow from experience. 

Raiding caravans, and creampying travelers by force is wrong. When you live in a society like Sodom's, you'll understand : that lifestyle make you gay. Plain and simple. They convert others by fore into being gays.

It's practiced in Saudi Arabia btw; the society there is just like Sodom.

I hope you are not missing my point here. Human excesses and or the good or bad we do to each other do not need old books of myth to understand and or manage better. Those comic book explanations actually serve to act as a blindfold to problem solving.

[Sheed1980]

Because sexuality is not only a form of pleasure for us as humans its also the form of reproduction to continue our existence of mankind. If it were natural and acceptable in the sight of Allah He would've created 2 men to mate. But it is immoral and our bodies that Allah created show this as well. Now we are both adults and having an adult conversation so I hope u don't mind me mentioning the sexual organs we have. It is perfectly planned how the male's penis fits into the female's vagina and the semen carrying spermatozoa fertilizes the ova. When 2 homosexuals become intimate there is absolutely no way of possible reproduction because their similar sexual organs can't penetrate one another. Allah made sexual intercourse a certain way because it is the moral way to reproduce and continue the existence of human beings.

You are trying to prove one imaginary story by using another imaginary story... Some women cannot have children, is it a sin to marry and have sex with them? What about women after menopause, is it a sin then too? 

And a homosexual would probably tell you that the penis fits just fine in a variety of places.

I keep saying to myself I don't want to argue religious people, I don't know why I keep coming back... Some things I read just make me so mad... Why do you care where other people put their penises?? Just mind your own business and let others be... I am not referring to you personally but to the Islamic laws you no doubt support and your ideal Islamic nation who would kill all homosexuals...

First off  if a woman can't have children it is still morally correct for a man to have intercourse with her. Ur right the penis can go in different places but a certain place especially with a member of the same sex is immoral. Those are the key words moral and immoral. It doesn't matter to me what other people do with their lives. Islam teaches us that every soul shall be judged by God on what that soul does or doesn't do and not another souls actions. So everybody should let people live their lives and they live their own

[Brian37]

I have a question. 7 billion humans and somehow lucky us you managed to find the correct god and the correct ancient book. That's fantastic. 

But here's the rub, seems a bit of a problem that your alleged "all powerful" being cant or wont get us all on the same page. Don't feel bad, Christians and Jews have the same problem. I still have yet to see any of the three give me a good answer. 

But here goes. Why would an all powerful being want or need human's help? If he can "poof" all this into existence, seems absurd he would need fallible humans to act as his public relations department? Are you telling me he cant do the work himself without your help?

That's an interesting question my friend. What you must understand is that God doesn't need our help for anything. He says in the Qur'an He is free of all needs worthy of all praise. So God doesn't give us this information and tell us about paradise and hellfire for Himself. It's for us as His creatures. It's nothing in Paradise that will be a pleasure to Allah nor anything in Hell that can hurt Him. In paradise The food and drinks, and beauty and gold and jewels and sexual companions, mansions, perfect weather, no disease, no sickness or ill feelings towards one another. Sweet fragrances, being waited on, etc. All of these things and so many more are things that God has created us humans to love. So He promises us by living the right life and worshipping Him alone, seeking His forgiveness when we sin in this temporary life in the Hereafter we shall have whatever we desire for all eternity. And the rewards will be so much greater than anything we can imagine. But He gives us a comparison of things that we can relate to in this life. Just the same with hellfire.  Everybody knows how fire burns and what scalding water is. So He explains in detail certain punishment so we have an idea of what to compare it to in this life even though it will be worse than we could imagine so we know what we want to stay away from

I do understand you make a claim, yes. Your actions however defy your logic. If you claim he does not need humans help, then you should not have to be here and make an apology for your claim. I'd suggest that your god is not real, and the real reason you are here arguing is the same reason all religions argue for their positions, you like the idea of having a super hero. Ever consider that?

And sorry, if you value the idea of hell, that makes you immoral. "Hell" is not corrective, it is an act of revenge. I don't care if that threat is coming out of the Koran or Bible. It is an act of torture, the act of bully. In real life, morso in the west, we don't get to torture those we arrest. In the west we contain, and while not a perfect system, because we have our transgressions as well, IE Bush Jr. We value courts and we allow those convicted an opportunity to leave prison if they are not serving life without parole. Even with our death penalty, which I wish we would get rid of, even with that, we have an appeals system to allow for a reversal if a mistake has been made in a conviction.

If your claimed being cannot explain all this himself in person, or doesn't want to just because he can, fuck him. In the civil west, our powers are subject to review and removal if need be. The god/s of Abraham are not subject to that same checks on power, which makes humans his lab rats, his toys. I feel sorry for you if you think that lowly of yourself.

[robvalue]

Mrj: Yeah, Christians just annoy homosexuals rather than kill them, but it would be different if there wasn't secular law in charge. In a Christian theocracy, I'd expect just as much savagery as you see in an Islam one.

Of course not all Christians would be violent, and the fact that they have grown up in a secular society means they have a respect for the law as well as their religion. But if they were raised with nothing but religious dogma, things would be very different.

[Brian37]

Mrj: Yeah, Christians just annoy homosexuals rather than kill them, but it would be different if there wasn't secular law in charge. In a Christian theocracy, I'd expect just as much savagery as you see in an Islam one.

Of course not all Christians would be violent, and the fact that they have grown up in a secular society means they have a respect for the law as well as their religion. But if they were raised with nothing but religious dogma, things would be very different.

What sickens me, is that I also have to deal with female atheists who vote republican. Yep, they do exist. Dealing with one right now on twitter. She is so quick to say "we don't do that here" and blames liberals for coddling the insecurities of treatment of women in Islam. 

Well yes and no. It depends which "liberal" you are talking about. Not this liberal, me. I have gotten pissed at some of my fellow liberals for example, wanting Ayaan Hirsi Ali banned from speaking at colleges. 

And she knows damned well that the bible does no better in it's depiction of gender rolls than the Koran. It pisses me off more when especially an atheist makes the same mistake in logic, morso than the well intended liberals she wants to blame. 

Religion in the west became civil in spite of religion. Our evolutionary empathy has caused the west to over ride those horrible bible stories. The underpinnings of theocracy are still there, and we still see attempts constantly at making religious law public policy. 

Our right wing Christians are half assed bigots. The violent nuts in Islam are not half assed, if they don't like you, the mob murders you or the state does it. Kim Davis is a half assed bigot. If she truly believed the bullshit she spews about homosexuality, she would do what Islam does, throw gays off rooftops. I am glad Kim is a half assed bigot. I am glad, even if she is unaware of her bad use of logic, that her empathy stops her from going as far as getting violent.

[robvalue]

I would be interested (or more likely frightened) to know how many Christians would be ready, stone in hand, if secular law suddenly failed. I feel fairly confident it would be relatively few here in England. I worry more about some of the vastly religious areas in the US.