Where's the justice?

[Polaris]

Could you elaborate on that sentiment?

It's a perversion of reason and justice that a murderer turned christian should receive heaven as eternal reward while his victim burns in hell fire. To call that mercy is twisted, why not save the victim too, in an act of mercy? It's perverted

Who is to say the victim will not receive their reward as well?

It is believed that the Catholic Church kept out a book in which was stated that even those in hell would eventually be granted that same mercy. Obviously the Catholic Church saw that as a threat to their earthly authority.

[Aiza]

First of all, not all Christians go to Heaven; and not all non-Christians go to Hell. Secondly, the killer doesn't necessarily go unpunished, all sins require a penance and/or perfect contrition.

Thirdly, and most importantly, justice should not be about "retribution" or an "eye for an eye" or whatever else. That's a principle which Christianity in particular rejects, and I honestly don't see how any compassionate person can stand by it. That sort of mentality is the biggest reason why our own prison system is such a mess.

[Phil]

First of all, not all Christians go to Heaven; and not all non-Christians go to Hell. Secondly, the killer doesn't necessarily go unpunished, all sins require a penance and/or perfect contrition.

Thirdly, and most importantly, justice should not be about "retribution" or an "eye for an eye" or whatever else. That's a principle which Christianity in particular rejects, and I honestly don't see how any compassionate person can stand by it. That sort of mentality is the biggest reason why our own prison system is such a mess.

I know I asked you this on another forum at another time but have you read your fucking bible? You display (and every post of yours drips with it) an unparalleled ignorance of your own bible not to mention your arrogance and condescending attitude. You do know if there was a Jesus he would vomit lots in his mouth whenever he reads your stupidity.

[Aiza]

I know I asked you this on another forum at another time but have you read your fucking bible? You display (and every post of yours drips with it) an unparalleled ignorance of your own bible not to mention your arrogance and condescending attitude. You do know if there was a Jesus he would vomit lots in his mouth whenever he reads your stupidity.

Have -you- read the entire Bible?

Yes I have read the entire Bible many times (Catholic Bibles too and we have more books than some of the translations I often see on here), as well as the entire CCC and many other pious works by early Christians, Church Fathers/Doctors and religious. I read the books of the Orthodox Deuterocanon as well.

I am genuinely sorry if I sound condescending (I am! ), but um, Jesus himself explicitly rebukes the whole idea of justice being purely about retribution. The parable of the workers in the vineyard fits in well here, and if you mean the "eye for an eye" stuff, well just read Matthew 5 already. I know you already know the one line from it.

I mean, everything I wrote in that post is so straightforward and simple I don't even know what your problem with it is.

[Polaris]

First of all, not all Christians go to Heaven; and not all non-Christians go to Hell. Secondly, the killer doesn't necessarily go unpunished, all sins require a penance and/or perfect contrition.

Thirdly, and most importantly, justice should not be about "retribution" or an "eye for an eye" or whatever else. That's a principle which Christianity in particular rejects, and I honestly don't see how any compassionate person can stand by it. That sort of mentality is the biggest reason why our own prison system is such a mess.

Well it is true that not all who call themselves Christian will go to heaven, but where does it say in the Bible that non-Christians will go to heaven as well?

John 3:18 states "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

I do believe that an eye for an eye is wrong. Ghandi famously said that mentality would leave the whole world blind. That is why I am going to push for the suspension of the death penalty in my state this year.

[Aiza]

Well it is true that not all who call themselves Christian will go to heaven, but where does it say in the Bible that non-Christians will go to heaven as well?

John 3:18 states "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

I do believe that an eye for an eye is wrong. Ghandi famously said that mentality would leave the whole world blind. That is why I am going to push for the suspension of the death penalty in my state this year.

I'm a Catholic, so we believe that those who earnestly seek out God can still be saved through Jesus Christ even if they never become aware of him as their Savior. This is from our Sacred Tradition and Magisterium (and I can give you the documents there if you are interested, though they may not mean much to you), but I understand Protestants are a bit different on this subject. The most direct reference in Scripture I am aware of is that the Spirit desires that all become saved, and that God can lead those who earnestly seek him--God is not bound by the very Sacraments that he implemented.

[Phil]

Well it is true that not all who call themselves Christian will go to heaven, but where does it say in the Bible that non-Christians will go to heaven as well?

John 3:18 states "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

I do believe that an eye for an eye is wrong. Ghandi famously said that mentality would leave the whole world blind. That is why I am going to push for the suspension of the death penalty in my state this year.

I'm a Catholic, so we believe that those who earnestly seek out God can still be saved through Jesus Christ even if they never become aware of him as their Savior. This is from our Sacred Tradition and Magisterium (and I can give you the documents there if you are interested, though they may not mean much to you), but I understand Protestants are a bit different on this subject. The most direct reference in Scripture I am aware of is that the Spirit desires that all become saved, and that God can lead those who earnestly seek him--God is not bound by the very Sacraments that he implemented.

But the atheist according to you can't know that because he is assumed to have not read the bible. Now do you understand why I and many others have called you an arrogant and condescending idiot?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Two non-Christians are going about their life. They have a dispute that ends in one being killed by the other. The one left alive in his/her later years becomes a Christian.

Now, according to theology, that person is going to heaven. The one who was killed is eternally getting punished. Where's the justice? How does the killer go unpunished like that?

Well, I don't know where the injustice lies. They have both drawn their weapons with the intent of shedding eachother's blood, yes?
Even if, the christian religion offers salvation for those who accept christ. Their past sins are washed away. This is a major point in christianity.

[Aiza]

But the atheist according to you can't know that because he is assumed to have not read the bible. Now do you understand why I and many others have called you an arrogant and condescending idiot?

The atheist can't know what? I honestly don't now what you are on about here, it doesn't seem to connect in an obvious way to the post you quote. Many atheists have "read the Bible", or so they keep assuring me.

I am sure an atheist can know everything there is to know about mainstream Christianity. I've never personally met an atheist who knew so much (I don't! I sometimes feel as if I could study for a whole lifetime and only scratch the surface...), but it is certainly possible.

I apologize if my tone sounds arrogant at all, I'll try even harder to emulate Our Lady's pure humility. Though perhaps even saying that I am capable of such a thing is "arrogance" itself!

[Welsh cake]

I do believe that an eye for an eye is wrong. Ghandi famously said that mentality would leave the whole world blind. That is why I am going to push for the suspension of the death penalty in my state this year.

You do that son.

I'll push for the reintroduction of Capital punishment in my country once we've escaped this dying European "Union" farce of a convention for the most exceptional and abominable acts against humanity.

You don't get to murder little children, live off my taxes in custody, and get parole in 10-20 twenty years only to commit the same fucking offence all over again. No fucking way.