Where did the Jesus myth come from?

[jupitor]

So what was the connective tissue between your mention of Akhenaten (who did not stop his people worshiping the sun but rather promoted the sun as the superdivinity) and Greeks in Judea?

Oh, sorry, Akenarten introduced the invisible God idea and that spread, along with Moses to Palestine, [ religion's 'birth'] where many Greeks lived. The Greeks then wanted a mythological son of the new God so Jesus was 'born'.
In the New International bible there are many references to the Greeks who at that time were also in Iraq/Iran/Jordan/Egypt.
The disciples were also constantly visiting the Greek islands. Revelations was 'written', on the island of Patmos.
Jesus also, always spoke in parables...i.e...Greek philosophy. To Minimalist, the Greeks had 300 years BC to move in after Alexander the Great, long enough to grow into a large community.
The following is a write-up about Mithra, stemming from India then to the Romans, before Christ came into being.
Mithra has the following in common with the Jesus character:

Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or "disciples."
He performed miracles.
As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
Mithra ascending to heaven in his solar cart, with sun symbolHe ascended to heaven.
Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
Mithraism emphasized baptism.

[FallentoReason]

Where did you get all that information about Mithriasm from average?

[Epimethean]

That information is all over the nets, along with the comparison to Osiris, and we've talked on that subject myriad times.

By the way, average, it is Akhenaten-not Akenarten.

[DeistPaladin]

Definitely be careful about information on parallels between Jesus and pagan religions. There's a lot of ill-researched crap out there and Christian apologists love to poison the well and say "See, see, the heathens are desperate to suppress the Truth that they go around telling lies about the Lord".

I feel the same way about 9/11 Truthers. There's a grain of truth in that the Bush administration was certainly willing to take full advantage of 9/11 to push their political agenda. However, running off into a crazy extreme as asserting that Bush wasn't just willing to take cynical advantage of the situation but actively caused it through a conspiracy only discredits criticism of the Bush administration.

Christianity was certainly a syncratic faith in its infancy and even remains so to this day. One can see the development in the Bible itself if you read the books in the order in which they were written. The ancient Jews, for example, had no concept of Hell or salvation. Neither did they have any need for an intercessor "Son of God", the very idea being blasphemous to the jealous and insecure Yahweh. Therefore, Christianity is not the fulfillment of Judaism. It can't be since it takes off in a completely new direction, even in ways blasphemous.

Looking for influences is one thing. Saying Christianity was a carbon copy of one earlier religion is another. There probably wasn't just one source anyway.

[jupitor]

That information is all over the nets, along with the comparison to Osiris, and we've talked on that subject myriad times.

By the way, average, it is Akhenaten-not Akenarten.

THANKS, i KNEW MY SPELLING WAS WRONG BUT COULDN'T REMEMBER HOW IT SHOULD BE SPELT.....oops, just noticed the capitals, sorry

[Minimalist]

Oh, sorry, Akenarten introduced the invisible God idea and that spread, along with Moses to Palestine, [ religion's 'birth'] where many Greeks lived. The Greeks then wanted a mythological son of the new God so Jesus was 'born'.

Um...the Aten was the sun - hardly an invisible "god."




Two, the idea was completely stamped out upon the death of Akhenaten and Egypt reverted to its former pantheon.

Three...only religious fanatics still believe that "Moses" led any sort of "exodus." Far more likely he was concocted by the priests who began writing this nonsense down in the 7th century ( See Finkelstein and also Donald Redford).

Four...Akhenaten died c 1334 BC and his religion died with him. This is about 1,000 years before the Greeks moved into the Levant in force.

This is all sounding very Acharya S-ish.

[Justtristo]

As for any Greek presence in Judaea, I have to ask when? Greeks and Persia were officially at war from 500 BC until Alexander overran Persia c 332 BC. Persia had solid control of Yehud ( which is what they called Judaea ) until Alex came rolling through. Any sizeable community of Greeks had either be mercenaries in the employ of the Persians or they would have been enemies. After Alexander, of course, the Greeks do move in.

I believe there was a Greek presence in the Levant from the end of the Bronze Age onwards. At least some of the Philistines might have well been Mycenaean Greeks. The conquests of Alexander the Great then would have just intensified greatly this influence.

Anyway the Egyptian influence on Canaanite religion and later Judaism is a result of the very long period of Egyptian domination of Canaan. Also not to mention Egypt was an major early center for Christianity. I am of the opinion that Christianity started off as a syncretistic form of Judaism which received substantial influence from Platonism, various mystery religions, along with ancient Egyptian religion.

[Minimalist]

At least some of the Philistines might have well been Mycenaean Greeks.

That's really stretching the point he's trying to make. The Philistines were Greek in much the same way as the Angles and Saxons were English. As a member of the Sea People confederation they certainly could have had a hand in destroying the Mycenaeans who went down along with all the other Late Bronze Age kingdoms except Egypt...and Phoenicia. But the main things we are told about the Philistines come from the OT itself and that ascribes their main god as Dagon an Assyrian-Babylonian deity first attested in the beginning of the second millenium BC and thus far pre-dating the Philistine arrival in Canaan. The OT is hopelessly unreliable. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

In any case, the Philistines were overrun by the Assyrians 4 centuries before Alexander the Great. Finkelstein does speculate that the Egyptians hired Greek hoplite mercenaries for their army during the 26th dynasty, the hoplite form of warfare evolved during the 8th-7th century but, again, these Greeks were hirelings of the Egyptians of Psammetichus and Necho. By that time the whole Olympic God thing would have been established.

[cratehorus]

As I have been reading the works of Robert M Price, the dying and rising god stories in Middle Eastern mythology originated as a personification of the sun going through the seasons. Given I would fully agree with DM Murdock that a lot of ancient religion is astrological, it is not too surprising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_god

So the answer is yes, Jesus is the sun???

[cratehorus]

Found this thought it might be interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory