Where did the Jesus myth come from?

[greneknight]

Grene - that's Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, genuine fundies. While they claim today that the original argument for design was satire, and satirize it today, that was only after it was pointed out to them that cultivated bananas are selectively bred for traits they claimed were evidence of divine design.

In any case, whether that particular claim ever was non-satirical, those two jokes have put out a number of equally kooky videos.

Like I have said, one half of America ought to be locked up in a mental home.

[Lion IRC]

There's plenty of evidence for the historicity of Jesus.
There's plenty of evidence that people actually believed they had seen miracles.

The atheist can argue those people were mistaken in what they saw but not... that there was nothing to see.

As a fundamentalist of the US kind...

Thanks.

...you obviously don't accept the claims of RC miracles such as the sightings of the Virgin Mary.

Why on earth would you assume that?

If someone claims they saw something, I dont automatically dismiss them as a liar or lunatic.

That type of instant automatic dismissal would put me in the very same camp as the (atheist) people who assert - without warrant - that testimony about Jesus is, and can only be, lies and/or lunacy.

...But if you check the newspapers a long time ago, there were reportedly tens of thousands of RCs who claim to have seen the sighting of Mary in Fatima, Portugal just as the three young village kids said they would.

Newspapers? Really? You mean even the newspaper reporters were helping perpetuate a lie?

As a clear thinker, I'd prefer to read the newspaper for MYSELF and make up MY OWN mind, rather than have you explaining it to me.
Because thats what you're trying to do.

...Superstitious people will claim to have seen all kinds of rubbish.

How about instead of calling them superstitious and calling what they say rubbish, you make an effort to debunk it if you really do think it can be refuted.
Or is that too much work for you?

...What happened 2000 years ago is worse. There were more superstitious people in those days....

Why pick that single point in time? In what year did history start becoming accurate? Archaeology is corroborating stuff in the bible. Do we reject that? Computer textual analysis of Gospel accounts (place name details, personal name frequency, Jewish cultural practices, etc.) shows that it is extraordinarily unlikely they were fabricated by someone living >70 years later outside the country where the (Jewish) events took place.

... From the report of St Matthew's gospel, they even claimed that upon Jesus' death, MANY people were raised from the dead and they went to town and were seen by a huge number of people.

I know what's in the bible. It's OK. You dont have to tell me what it says.

...But nobody believes that sort of rubbish these days.

Believes what? Earthquakes? Lightning? Solar eclipses? Whats hard to believe about those?
Seeing ghosts? Are you claiming nobody believes in ghosts these days?
Have you seen what sort of gothic/horror movies kids are flocking to see these days? The non-theist, rational enlightenment? Yeah RIGHT!!!!
The occult, the paranormal, hobbits, wizards, time travel, extra-terrestrial realms of existence - it's more popular than EVER!

...Even the fundiest fundamentalist from the Cathedral of St Fundy of Fundyland can't possibly believe that part of St Matthew was true and actually happened.

There's an Anglican (Church of England) guy on rationalskepticism.org named ''Jerome'' you might want to go and debunk, who is currently in a formal debate arguing in favour of the existence of ghosts. (discarnate consciousness)

Now, what were you saying about extreme fundies?

[greneknight]

As a fundamentalist of the US kind...

Thanks.

...you obviously don't accept the claims of RC miracles such as the sightings of the Virgin Mary.

Why on earth would you assume that?

If someone claims they saw something, I dont automatically dismiss them as a liar or lunatic.

That type of instant automatic dismissal would put me in the very same camp as the (atheist) people who assert - without warrant - that testimony about Jesus is, and can only be, lies and/or lunacy.

...But if you check the newspapers a long time ago, there were reportedly tens of thousands of RCs who claim to have seen the sighting of Mary in Fatima, Portugal just as the three young village kids said they would.

Newspapers? Really? You mean even the newspaper reporters were helping perpetuate a lie?

As a clear thinker, I'd prefer to read the newspaper for MYSELF and make up MY OWN mind, rather than have you explaining it to me.
Because thats what you're trying to do.

...Superstitious people will claim to have seen all kinds of rubbish.

How about instead of calling them superstitious and calling what they say rubbish, you make an effort to debunk it if you really do think it can be refuted. Or is that too much work for you?

...What happened 2000 years ago is worse. There were more superstitious people in those days....

Why pick that single point in time? In what year did history start becoming accurate? Archaeology is corroborating stuff in the bible. Do we reject that? Computer textual analysis of Gospel accounts (place name details, personal name frequency, Jewish cultural practices, etc.) shows that it is extraordinarily unlikely they were fabricated by someone living >70 years later outside the country where the (Jewish) events took place.

... From the report of St Matthew's gospel, they even claimed that upon Jesus' death, MANY people were raised from the dead and they went to town and were seen by a huge number of people.

I know what's in the bible. It's OK. You dont have to tell me what it says.

...But nobody believes that sort of rubbish these days.

Believes what? Earthquakes? Lightning? Solar eclipses? Whats hard to believe about those?
Seeing ghosts? Are you claiming nobody believes in ghosts these days?
Have you seen what sort of gothic/horror movies kids are flocking to see these days? The non-theist, rational enlightenment? Yeah RIGHT!!!!
The occult, the paranormal, hobbits, wizards, time travel, extra-terrestrial realms of existence - it's more popular than EVER!

...Even the fundiest fundamentalist from the Cathedral of St Fundy of Fundyland can't possibly believe that part of St Matthew was true and actually happened.

There's an Anglican (Church of England) guy on rationalskepticism.org named ''Jerome'' you might want to go and debunk, who is currently in a formal debate arguing in favour of the existence of ghosts. (discarnate consciousness)

Now, what were you saying about extreme fundies?

We have a few madmen in our church but in the Cathedral of St Fundy of Fundyland, your Archbishop of Fundy Diocese and EVERYONE in the church are raving lunatics. That's the difference. President Obama should arrest half of America and lock them up in lunatic hospitals. It's easy to identify them. Take a survey. Anyone who believes the world is 10,000 years old or some ridiculously young age for the earth must be certified a lunatic worthy of a lifetime of hospitalization. You guys should put them on display in a "zoo" so tourists like me can visit them and throw nuts at them to feed them.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If you expect me to believe that chap with the banana is a real fundy, you probably take me for a 3 year old.

Again with the argument from incredulity. I have no expectations of you. I hope you will consider any argument I make,and examine any evidence I provide.Then I hope you will make up your own mind.


The guy with the banana is indeed a well known fundy, Ray Comfort,as is the younger guy,Kirk Cameron. Ray is well known on the net as 'the banana guy' .

grene; it's a big mistake to think even a goodly percentage of humans are as smart or reflective as you. NEVER underestimate human stupidity, gullibility and ability to rationalise literally anything.

Read "The Book Of Mormon' That will certainly put fundy idiocy into perspective.

PS "The Left Behind' films are based on a series of very successful "Christian' books about that well known piece of fundy loopery,'the rapture'

PPS visit this website; The Creation Museum; also real and as serious as cancer of the testicles.

http://creationmuseum.org/



00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Ray Comfort is a New Zealand-born Christian minister and evangelist.[2] Comfort started Living Waters Publications and The Way of the Master in Bellflower, California and has written a number of books.

(photo with link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Comfort

Kirk Thomas Cameron (born October 12, 1970) is an American actor best known for his role as Mike Seaver on the television situation comedy Growing Pains (1985–1992), as well as several other television and film appearances as a child actor. In the 1980s and 1990s, Cameron appeared in dozens of television shows and in the films Like Father Like Son and Listen to Me.

Recently, he portrayed Cameron "Buck" Williams in the Left Behind film series and Caleb Holt in the 2008 drama film, Fireproof. Cameron is also an active evangelical Christian evangelist, currently partnering with Ray Comfort in the evangelical ministry The Way of the Master, and has co-founded The Firefly Foundation with his wife, actress Chelsea Noble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Cameron

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Ah, I figured JP Holding style apologetics was bound to pop up eventually in this thread.

[greneknight]

If you expect me to believe that chap with the banana is a real fundy, you probably take me for a 3 year old.

Again with the argument from incredulity. I have no expectations of you. I hope you will consider any argument I make,and examine any evidence I provide.Then I hope you will make up your own mind.


The guy with the banana is indeed a well known fundy, Ray Comfort,as is the younger guy,Kirk Cameron. Ray is well known on the net as 'the banana guy' .

grene; it's a big mistake to think even a goodly percentage of humans are as smart or reflective as you. NEVER underestimate human stupidity, gullibility and ability to rationalise literally anything.

Read "The Book Of Mormon' That will certainly put fundy idiocy into perspective.

PS "The Left Behind' films are based on a series of very successful "Christian' books about that well known piece of fundy loopery,'the rapture'

PPS visit this website; The Creation Museum; also real and as serious as cancer of the testicles.

http://creationmuseum.org/



00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Ray Comfort is a New Zealand-born Christian minister and evangelist.[2] Comfort started Living Waters Publications and The Way of the Master in Bellflower, California and has written a number of books.

(photo with link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Comfort

Kirk Thomas Cameron (born October 12, 1970) is an American actor best known for his role as Mike Seaver on the television situation comedy Growing Pains (1985–1992), as well as several other television and film appearances as a child actor. In the 1980s and 1990s, Cameron appeared in dozens of television shows and in the films Like Father Like Son and Listen to Me.

Recently, he portrayed Cameron "Buck" Williams in the Left Behind film series and Caleb Holt in the 2008 drama film, Fireproof. Cameron is also an active evangelical Christian evangelist, currently partnering with Ray Comfort in the evangelical ministry The Way of the Master, and has co-founded The Firefly Foundation with his wife, actress Chelsea Noble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Cameron

I do know that half of America believes the earth is 10000 years old and I've said they deserve to be locked in a mental home forever. But the banana video takes the cake. It's very hard to believe anyone can be so incredibly stupid. If he were my dad, I'd disown him. It must be very embarrassing to be associated with anyone as stupid as that. I thought the guy who was seated on his left was laughing all the time because the whole thing was a joke.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...

I do know that half of America believes the earth is 10000 years old and I've said they deserve to be locked in a mental home forever. But the banana video takes the cake. It's very hard to believe anyone can be so incredibly stupid. If he were my dad, I'd disown him. It must be very embarrassing to be associated with anyone as stupid as that. I thought the guy who was seated on his left was laughing all the time because the whole thing was a joke.

Greneknight, this is also a real creationist video. It's even dumber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

[greneknight]

...

I do know that half of America believes the earth is 10000 years old and I've said they deserve to be locked in a mental home forever. But the banana video takes the cake. It's very hard to believe anyone can be so incredibly stupid. If he were my dad, I'd disown him. It must be very embarrassing to be associated with anyone as stupid as that. I thought the guy who was seated on his left was laughing all the time because the whole thing was a joke.

Greneknight, this is also a real creationist video. It's even dumber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

Yes, thanks. That guy looks serious enough. He ought to be locked up together with half of America. How is it that no fundy whispers in his ear that he's an incredible embarrassment to the fundy cause? Obvious answer is a fundy must find this video sensible.

Lock them all up. That's the only way to save the USA and the rest of the world.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...

Yes, thanks. That guy looks serious enough. He ought to be locked up together with half of America. How is it that no fundy whispers in his ear that he's an incredible embarrassment to the fundy cause? Obvious answer is a fundy must find this video sensible.

Lock them all up. That's the only way to save the USA and the rest of the world.

We locked Kent Hovind up at least.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Lock them all up. That's the only way to save the USA and the rest of the world.

That would be VERY expensive. A lot cheaper to just kill them,perhaps by purpose-built gassing facilities.