Why do christians needlessly risk their immortal souls?

[GhostofZeus]

This question is for true believers out there. I'm always curious as to how people function in this world if they are believers in heaven and hell and an eternal soul. Specifically, if you truly believe in a god that is the ultimate arbiter of your entrance into heaven and hell, then the only logical course for your life would be to devise the route that will provide the highest probability of avoiding hell. That is, since this material life is finite and heaven and hell are for eternity, then this life has no importance other than as a vehicle to avoid hell and get into heaven. That should make things very simple as to how to purport your life: try and learn what the god's criteria for getting to heaven and then dedicate yourself 100% to meeting those criteria. Assuming the bible is that rule book, a very big assumption, then the only logical course is to understand the bible and follow its' teachings. It seems others have come to this conclusion too; they become monks, go to an isolated monastery, take vows of silence, study scripture and avoid contact with the 'outside' world. Why they remain living I do not know, as an early death, not suicide of course, would dramatically increase the probability of avoiding sin. The point is, only a miniscule minority of self proclaimed christians actually follow the monastery route; what are the others thinking? It is outrageously foolish for a christian to risk her soul by going to school, getting a career, making money, building relationships etc...? My only conclusion, thus far, is that the vast majority of christians only profess belief but don't actually believe in heaven and hell, and/or they haven't bothered to learn scripture?

[Drich]

This question is for true believers out there. I'm always curious as to how people function in this world if they are believers in heaven and hell and an eternal soul. Specifically, if you truly believe in a god that is the ultimate arbiter of your entrance into heaven and hell, then the only logical course for your life would be to devise the route that will provide the highest probability of avoiding hell.

That would be a problem as the bible tells us there is noting We can do to avoid Hell.

That is, since this material life is finite and heaven and hell are for eternity, then this life has no importance other than as a vehicle to avoid hell and get into heaven. That should make things very simple as to how to purport your life: try and learn what the god's criteria for getting to heaven and then dedicate yourself 100% to meeting those criteria. Assuming the bible is that rule book, a very big assumption, then the only logical course is to understand the bible and follow its' teachings.

How is it that you believe people outside of monestaries have not done this?

It seems others have come to this conclusion too; they become monks, go to an isolated monastery, take vows of silence, study scripture and avoid contact with the 'outside' world.

Monestaries are not perscribed in the bible as a way to do anything except to perfect a very specific brand of religion. (Man's efforts to worship connect to God) The bible, more over Christ himself shows that He is not a fan of the practice of worshiping a religion, or specific brand of worship.

Why they remain living I do not know, as an early death, not suicide of course, would dramatically increase the probability of avoiding sin.

Avoiding sin is not the Goal of a biblically based Christianity, for all sin has been attoned for, and the believer can stand before God as if he were sinless. The Goal of biblically based Christianity is to Love God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit and Strength. We do this not be being sinnless (Which according to Christ and Paul is a fruitless effort) but by keeping his commands (not commandments) "Go out into the world and spread the Gospel." How many monks can do this from their monestary's door step?

The point is, only a miniscule minority of self proclaimed christians actually follow the monastery route; what are the others thinking?

That monestaries are not the recomended route to heaven, as we are told not to isolate ourselves from the world who need us. We are to be very much apart of it, just not "of it."

It is outrageously foolish for a christian to risk her soul by going to school, getting a career, making money, building relationships etc...?

What seems to be even more foolish is to make blind assumptions of a religion you seem to know little to nothing about.

My only conclusion, thus far, is that the vast majority of christians only profess belief but don't actually believe in heaven and hell, and/or they haven't bothered to learn scripture?

Since you brought it up do you have said scripture that backs up the need to live in a monestary?

Then why hold anyone to a standard in which you can not produce yourself? Has hyprocrisy outside of the church become an accepted practice now?

[GhostofZeus]

"That would be a problem as the bible tells us there is noting We can do to avoid Hell." >> Can you provide a reference to this.


"How is it that you believe people outside of monestaries have not done this?" >> How can one be devoted to god and "Love God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit and Strength," and "take therefore no thought for the morrow" if you're working 8-14 hours a day to get money to buy things to make life comfortable?


"The bible, more over Christ himself shows that He is not a fan of the practice of worshiping a religion, or specific brand of worship." I'm not sure what you mean by this statement." >> Can you provide a biblical quote.


"Avoiding sin is not the Goal of a biblically based Christianity, for all sin has been attoned for, and the believer can stand before God as if he were sinless. The Goal of biblically based Christianity is to Love God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit and Strength. We do this not be being sinnless (Which according to Christ and Paul is a fruitless effort) but by keeping his commands (not commandments) "Go out into the world and spread the Gospel." How many monks can do this from their monestary's door step?" >> You're claiming that it is okay to sin? Ignore sin but promote the gospel is the best route to heaven? So do you, and your fellow christians spend 20 hour days proselytizing?


"That monestaries are not the recomended route to heaven, as we are told not to isolate ourselves from the world who need us. We are to be very much apart of it, just not "of it."" >> Can you provide reference for this.


"What seems to be even more foolish is to make blind assumptions of a religion you seem to know little to nothing about." >> Not very chrisitian of you. Your hate is, I'm pretty sure, a sin. Making people, me for example, dislike christians and, therefore, never know god's grace is probably going to get you into hell.


"Since you brought it up do you have said scripture that backs up the need to live in a monestary?" >> You miss the point. I am interested in determining the route that has the highest probability of reaching heaven. Going to a monastery was just an example.


"Then why hold anyone to a standard in which you can not produce yourself? Has hyprocrisy outside of the church become an accepted practice now?" >> I'm not holding anyone to any standard. I am simply asking a religious question on a forum for asking religious questions.

[Drich]

[GhostofZeus]

"Paul is making a very clear statement"

a) No, it is not clear
b) That is your interpretation of Paul's statement

Well, I appreciate your time, but this has been unhelpful. I knew that it is impossible to be free of sin, but your view that there is no need to avoid sin to get into heaven is intriguing. The corollary of that is you can lead a sinful, immoral life and not worry about your immortal soul. Your interpretation seems to contradict what I've heard from every christian: avoid sin, follow christian morality. Why preach against homosexuality or pre-marital sex or any sin for that matter. I will make another post to focus on this one issue: do we need to avoid sin.

[Drich]

[quote='GhostofZeus' pid='300606' dateline='1339970160']
[quote]Well, I appreciate your time, but this has been unhelpful. I knew that it is impossible to be free of sin, but your view that there is no need to avoid sin to get into heaven is intriguing.[/quote] Read the book of Roman. you will fin that this concept is not unique to me.

Romans 7 condenses this concept into a few passages


14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave. 15 I don’t understand why I act the way I do. I don’t do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate. 16 And if I don’t want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good. 17 But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it. 18 Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is not spiritual. I want to do what is good, but I don’t do it. 19 I don’t do the good that I want to do. I do the evil that I don’t want to do. 20 So if I do what I don’t want to do, then I am not really the one doing it. It is the sin living in me that does it.

21 So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me. 22 In my mind I am happy with God’s law. 23 But I see another law working in my body. That law makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and that law makes me its prisoner. 24 What a miserable person I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death? 25 I thank God for his salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So in my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.

[quote] The corollary of that is you can lead a sinful, immoral life and not worry about your immortal soul.[/quote]That is not what was said. I said trying to earn your way to heaven by behivor is a pointless. Because the bible demonstrates that we Can not be good enough so we must seek an alternitive to trying to earn our way to heaven.

[quote] Your interpretation seems to contradict what I've heard from every christian: avoid sin, follow christian morality. Why preach against homosexuality or pre-marital sex or any sin for that matter. I will make another post to focus on this one issue: do we need to avoid sin.[/quote]
The behavior is meaningless in of itself. we must know why we do what we do.

[Godscreated]

Assuming the bible is that rule book, a very big assumption, then the only logical course is to understand the bible and follow its' teachings. It seems others have come to this conclusion too; they become monks, go to an isolated monastery, take vows of silence, study scripture and avoid contact with the 'outside' world. Why they remain living I do not know, as an early death, not suicide of course, would dramatically increase the probability of avoiding sin. The point is, only a miniscule minority of self proclaimed christians actually follow the monastery route; what are the others thinking? It is outrageously foolish for a christian to risk her soul by going to school, getting a career, making money, building relationships etc...? My only conclusion, thus far, is that the vast majority of christians only profess belief but don't actually believe in heaven and hell, and/or they haven't bothered to learn scripture?

You took a long route to get to you questions, I eliminated most of it, so as not to take up forum space unnecessarily.
A question for you, why ask these questions when it's apparent you have no idea what scriptures have to say? Do you even have a Bible and if so have you ever read it, if not then how is it you believe you can make statements about the way Christians should live their lives. Word of mouth from atheist is here say, and can not be taken as fact.
God has made it simple to come into salvation, all that is required is this accept the love of God through the life, death and resurrection of Christ. God made salvation this easy so all could come unto Him, the simple, down trodden, the poor, murderers, sexually immoral, rich, well educated and ect. No one is beyond salvation, no one has to work for it, believe and accept, can not be simpler really.
Monks or anyone else that keep to themselves are selfish and weak, more than likely they are trying to earn their way into heaven, want work, trying to earn salvation is actually against the plan of God, it is a religious practice, one that might hold one back from salvation.
As far as exposing ones self to the world as a Christian is a command from Christ, Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If Christ had intended for us to hide ourselves away, He would not have given this command. He actually said this, Matthew 28:20 "teaching them to observe all I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
God also said in Genesis, "six days shall a man work and on the seventh he shall rest and keep it holy." God from the beginning never intended for us to bury our heads in the sand.