I'm unsure what you mean by natural. if it exists, it would be natural.
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I can feel your anger
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 RE: I can feel your anger
July 22, 2012 at 5:22 am
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2012 at 5:25 am by Ace Otana.)
(July 22, 2012 at 5:19 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: I'm unsure what you mean by natural. if it exists, it would be natural. Natural as in energy/matter, forces of nature. If god is natural (physical) and affects the physical, there would be evidence. In which case, there isn't any as far as we know. If god is within the natural world, he's testable! We'd be able to verify it. Which is why theists like to state that god is beyond the natural world. That way it cannot be verified. Unfalsifiable.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them. 
So natural = what we can observe?
(July 22, 2012 at 5:26 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: So natural = what we can observe? Yeah, pretty much. If it is of matter/energy, or a force that affects matter/energy. We can observe, test and measure it. Its verifiable. That's why theists put their god outside of the natural world, where it cannot be verified. Unfalsifiable.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
That doesn't mean it's not natural as we cannot verify it.
(July 22, 2012 at 5:49 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: That doesn't mean it's not natural as we cannot verify it. I'm not stating that 'god' is not natural. Theists do. I don't believe god exists remember. If god is natural, prove it. If something affects the natural world, we should be able to observe it, it should leave evidence. If god can be verified, then knock yourself out and try and verify it.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.  (July 22, 2012 at 3:35 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: This may be a belief, but ironic many atheists now depend on science as a proxy religion. Science is not a religion, proxy or otherwise. Religion is a tool used by the powerful few to manipulate the ignorant many. Science is a tool used to understand the universe. And if you con't see the difference then there is no helping you. ![[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo112%2Fpussinboots_photos%2FBikes%2Fmybannerglitter06eee094.gif) If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71. 
It does seem that there is no helping him. The "not much" of his religious views is pretty much as dogmatic as anything he seems to wish to proscribe.
Trying to update my sig ...
I think really, to be honest, fuck him.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
RE: I can feel your anger
July 23, 2012 at 3:20 am
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2012 at 3:30 am by Selliedjoup.)
(July 22, 2012 at 5:53 am)Ace Otana Wrote: [quote='Selliedjoup' pid='314042' dateline='1342950593'] Quote:I'm not stating that 'god' is not natural. Theists do. I don't believe god exists remember. Yes and by stating only that which is scientifically proven to be 'natural' reflects your view on natural and science. I don't solely depend on science. My existence requests that I ask why I exist, and I see no reason to view what we can replicate and measure as a sole means to address this question. Why are you convinced that this is the only way to assess whether a god exists? (July 22, 2012 at 6:32 am)Zen Badger Wrote: [quote='Selliedjoup' pid='314025' dateline='1342942549'] Quote:Science is not a religion, proxy or otherwise. Do you actually think that's what I'm saying? It's either a failure to understand, a disengenious tactic (by attempting to make materialism interchangeable with science) or even worse, this is what you believe to be true. No science is not a religion, materialists application of science is. Quote:Religion is a tool used by the powerful few to manipulate the ignorant many.Yay science wins so easily.  Quote:And if you con't see the difference then there is no helping you. I don't require help from people who accept what they say to be true, as they've said it. (July 22, 2012 at 10:42 am)Epimethean Wrote: It does seem that there is no helping him. The "not much" of his religious views is pretty much as dogmatic as anything he seems to wish to proscribe. Please help me, how can I 'save' my irrational soul? Tell me what to believe. Am I dogmatic as I deny that you know the correct method to determine what is and what isn't? This logic is employed by many fundamentalists. (July 22, 2012 at 4:33 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: I think really, to be honest, fuck him. 
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