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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 8:56 am
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 8:57 am by Skepsis.)
It seems to me that morality exists in the state that it does due to the nature of human beings.
If the nature of humanity changed, if the nauture of out physical structure changed, if our instincts changed, do you think we would still have the same morality?
Does it follow that morality, if it is an eternal concept, would apply the same to another species of thinking beings whose bodily structure and needs were completely separate from that of humans?
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 11:03 am
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 11:04 am by Ryantology.)
That's a good point. Would murder be immoral if nothing could ever died?
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Imagine a world where smart intelligent beings are created to do battle with each other. They battle one another but they don't die. They can inflict pain on each other but not physical damage. They fight each other and inflict pain on each other. Now is it possible that part of their "goodness" is to hate each other and inflict pain on each other, for no reason but for sake of hate and inflicting pain? And that it's "evil" to love and have compassion for one another? Those whom decide to help one another, try to live in peace, not inflict pain each other are being "evil"? While those inflicting pain on each other are being "good"? Can the Creator create goodness and evil, in this sense? Or is it impossible?
I say it's impossible. Let me know your thoughts.
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm
(July 17, 2012 at 11:03 am)Ryantology Wrote: That's a good point. Would murder be immoral if nothing could ever died?
Yes, it'd just be alien to us and impossible to carry out.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 6:35 pm
Religious morality is a complete joke, not to mention an oxymoron.
Religion is an attempt to answer the philosophical questions of the unphilosophical man.
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 17, 2012 at 6:43 pm
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 6:58 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(July 17, 2012 at 1:07 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Imagine a world where smart intelligent beings are created to do battle with each other. They battle one another but they don't die. They can inflict pain on each other but not physical damage. They fight each other and inflict pain on each other. Now is it possible that part of their "goodness" is to hate each other and inflict pain on each other, for no reason but for sake of hate and inflicting pain? And that it's "evil" to love and have compassion for one another? Those whom decide to help one another, try to live in peace, not inflict pain each other are being "evil"? While those inflicting pain on each other are being "good"? Can the Creator create goodness and evil, in this sense? Or is it impossible?
I say it's impossible. Let me know your thoughts.
If a creature can't suffer harm, why would it develop any aversion to the cognative feature called pain? If pain is not undesirable, why would it be evil to inflict it?
I think you are abstracting far too much, and cherry picking portions of the abstraction while ignoring intimiately and inextricably related portions.
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 18, 2012 at 8:34 am
(July 17, 2012 at 1:07 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Imagine a world where smart intelligent beings are created to do battle with each other. They battle one another but they don't die. They can inflict pain on each other but not physical damage. They fight each other and inflict pain on each other. Now is it possible that part of their "goodness" is to hate each other and inflict pain on each other, for no reason but for sake of hate and inflicting pain? And that it's "evil" to love and have compassion for one another? Those whom decide to help one another, try to live in peace, not inflict pain each other are being "evil"? While those inflicting pain on each other are being "good"? Can the Creator create goodness and evil, in this sense? Or is it impossible?
I say it's impossible. Let me know your thoughts.
You mean something like some MMORPG's where the "created" intelligent beings are constantly engaged in battle? Where your skill and proficiency are determined by how much damage you have inflicted on others and a good player is one with the greatest number of kills? Where the entire point of your existence is to kill-destroy-conquer-annihilate in a manner that would be unacceptable in this world?
Huh, I guess it is possible.
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RE: Can Creator create morality from nothing?
July 19, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Whether or not a creator can do anything (including create this or that morality) is honestly superfluous in your line of questioning Mystic. You might say "it's impossible" but based upon what? Your understanding of who or what a creator is? Excuse me for finding that far less than compelling. Perhaps their creator demands precisely this sort of behavior, and it is their creator that is responsible for the cosmos and not your own. Adding in a creator to this question doesn't clarify or elaborate upon any point or issue, it only turns it into a spiritual buffet. Anything that can be asserted becomes equally possible if you simply shuffle around the creators and their creations.
Could such a morality exist, a morality based upon prowess or skill in combat and headcount? Um.....a resounding yes, what with the plethora of cultures here on this very planet that have had similar sorts of morality...I'd say it's possible that such a morality could exist regardless of whether or not a creator was involved in any way. Whether or not you would agree with their understanding of morality is an entirely different issue.
If I misunderstood the question, and you are asking instead whether or not any morality like this could be said to have come from a creator....well....see the above -anything can be said to have come from a creator-. Whether or not anything actually did....lulz.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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