Does the Bible Contradict Itself?

[Stevie]

I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

certainly. it's imperfect...you can throw away the bible now, i'm here (perfect).

[Mystic]

I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

certainly. it's imperfect...you can throw away the bible now, i'm here (perfect).

I know there are people whom genuinely believe they are God or Jesus. I hope people don't treat you bad for it. I hope for your sake that you do get help and listen to your loved ones, and believe people that genuinely care for you, that you are not God.

I know it must be hard but no one is going to believe you are god. And it's hard for you to convince yourself that you are not.

I hope people realize here that doctors can't convince people with such conditions often, and so, we aren't going to have better luck, and to take it easy on you, realizing it's not your fault.

[Stevie]

certainly. it's imperfect...you can throw away the bible now, i'm here (perfect).

I know there are people whom genuinely believe they are God or Jesus. I hope people don't treat you bad for it. I hope for your sake that you do get help and listen to your loved ones, and believe people that genuinely care for you, that you are not God.

I know it must be hard but no one is going to believe you are god. And it's hard for you to convince yourself that you are not.

I hope people realize here that doctors can't convince people with such conditions often, and so, we aren't going to have better luck, and to take it easy on you, realizing it's not your fault.

well thanks for your genuine concern, just gotta be careful about speaking for others, that's being manipulative.

[Mystic]

well thanks for your genuine concern

No problem.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Take care.

You too. Please remember to always take mummy's hand when crossing the street and never play with matches or sharp things.

Still love ya' all.

Oh,right back at'cha. I for one just live to be patronised by sanctimonious dropkicks.

[Cato]

My feeble attempt to use the English language to describe your pathology didn't work.

Therefore I give you this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFyHTU8tg_0

[FallentoReason]

spockrates, how about this one? It's not a contradiction but rather a complete misunderstanding between Gospel authors.

Mark 11 contains the part about Jesus and the fig tree:

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12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.

15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17 And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written:

"'My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations'? But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'"

18 The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.

19 When evening came, they went out of the city.

20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"

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This all came from Hosea 9 which refers to the destruction of Israel:

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Hosea 9:
1 Do not rejoice, O Israel; do not be jubilant like the other nations. For you have been unfaithful to your God; ...
7 The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac.
8 The prophet, along with my God, is the watchman over Ephraim, yet snares await him on all his paths, and hostility in the house of his God.
9 They have sunk deep into corruption, as in the days of Gibeah. God will remember their wickedness and punish them for their sins.
10 'When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree. But when they came to Baal Peor, they consecrated themselves to that shameful idol and became as vile as the thing they loved.
11 Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird—no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children, I will bereave them of every one. Woe to them when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place. But Ephraim will bring out their children to the slayer."
14 Give them, O LORD—what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry.
15 "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.'
17 My God will reject them because they have not obeyed him;
We can clearly see here that the author of Mark uses Hosea 9 for his motif, because in Mark 11 the fig

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Matthew then reads this about the fig tree but doesn't understand why Mark wrote about Jesus going to inspect a tree that was out of season. It must have seemed rather absurd. So to fix that up he turns this event into a standard party trick to amaze his 12 zodia--I mean Apostles :

18 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

As one can see, the allegory is completely lost. From Matthew's account we can no longer make the comparison between Hosea 9 and understand that Mark was referring to the destruction of Israel.

I guess to me this is a contradiction after all. The contradiction being between the authors. Why does it seem like Mark is not writing history but merely referencing the OT but then only to have Matthew write a completely different 'account of history'? Did they believe in the same things here?? Seems to me like they didn't. If my interpretation is right then it can be assumed that Mark knew Jesus wasn't a historical figure and Matthew was once again trying to force Mark into being literal history by writing similar accounts and losing the allegory.

[spockrates]

I'm willing to debate, just put a contradiction on the table and we'll talk about it. I gave you a list of hundreds.

Thank you, Annik! I was beginning to think I was chasing the wind!

OK, what I noticed from the list at the site you recommended (good resource, BTW) was that a majority of them delt with numbers. I'd call these errors in translation, instead of contradiction. Christian appologists admit these.

The short list was more helpful, as it excluded these errors.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/short.html

You asked me to choose, so I picked the one with which I'm most familiar:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra...alone.html

Is salvation by faith alone? The short answer is that these are not contradictions, but ambiguities. The texts cited may reasonably be interpreted, or misinterpreted to answer the question either yes or no. It's a case of a lack of clarity rather tha contradiction.

Please let me know whether you agree, and if not, please explain why not.

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I'm thinking this is not a place where people of different beliefs are welcome. Do you all enjoy just talking only with those who agree with you? Is it more of a support group than a debate forum?

You are perfectly welcome here, if I myself have given you the wrong impression I apologise. I do find however such threads incredibly tedious, I must apologise for my attitude. That is not your fault nor your problem.

Forget I ever posted here.

Appology accepted! Please reconsider participating in the dialog, if the mood strikes you. Annik and I are making a go at it, and I'd be grateful for any insight. You might find I'm different from the religious partisans, as I've spent a good deal of time debating with Christians of all kinds. I try to keep an open mind and am always willing to admit I might be deceived.

[LastPoet]

Some members have already posted contraditions, adress them!

[spockrates]

I think so, but please explain your meaning.

Surely you don't think you are the first to show up here with this particular tactic.

No matter how many contradictions are shown they always produce some ludicrous "explanation," and pronounce themselves satisfied with it.

I will give you one example.

2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Mag

-- Mathew 2

2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. 2 (This was the first census that took place while[a] Quirinius was governor of Syria.)

--Luke 2

Herod the Great died in 4 BC. Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was named governor of Syria in 6 AD.

There is a minimum 10 year gap between these two events.

Now, both may be ( my personal view) but one must be, wrong.

Not sure I understand. Augustus lived until 19 August, AD 14, so Herod was alive during the Emperor's census.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus

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Some members have already posted contraditions, adress them!

So many posts; so little time! It would be wise to briefly answer as many as I can, but focus on one, for now. Don't you think? Let's see where Annik's recommendation takes us.

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I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

Heres two propositions throughout the Bible in numerous passages that contradict:
1. God is omnipotent, all-powerful and all knowing.
2. We have freewill.

If God has knowledge of events past, future and present then that means there is a single, unchanging path we all travel. Every choice we make is preordained to occur as is the outcome which means it isn't really a choice. We're just following the script of a massive machination.
Ergo, either God is not omnipotent or there is no free-will.
If free-will is implemented then that makes our future unwritten and therefore unpredictable to God, rendering omnipotence meaningless.
If God is omnipotent then that negates freewill, rendering freewill meaningless.
Explain.

Examples:
"And if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)

"For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, "My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,"
calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it."
(Isaiah 46.9-11)

Calvinists and other proponents of Reformed Theology address the apparent contradiction by saying our choices (both for good, or evil) are chosen by God. No free will, no seeming contradictions.

How would you respond to their answer?

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Thanks Mystic. Not sure about the first three. The last two sound like these words of Christ:

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

(Matthew 10:39)


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...on=NIV1984

Believers are promised salvation. Disobedient/desires of the life of this world from believers are promised damnation.

How can they be promised both salvation and damnation?

This problem also occurs in Quran.

Not sure what texts to which you are referring. From what I understand of scripture, believing is not enough. A believer must also continue to repent of the thoughts, words and deeds her own conscience tells her are wrong.

and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

(Luke 24:47)