Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 10:25 am

Poll: Do you think rape is natural to humans?
This poll is closed.
Yes
61.76%
21 61.76%
No
17.65%
6 17.65%
Don't know/maybe
8.82%
3 8.82%
Don't care
11.76%
4 11.76%
Total 34 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is rape natural?
#11
RE: Is rape natural?
Rape is bad mm'kaaay.
Cunt
Reply
#12
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 1:49 pm)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:
Creed Wrote:and never from dominant alpha males/females, either, but rather, the runts of the litter, the dregs of the pack, the biological washouts who never have a chance otherwise

Where the hell did you get that idea? Confused Fall

It's not so much my idea as much as it is the idea of someone I encountered, the "to be named" party I mentioned. Or rather, the counter to his idea. Adding "never" to the sentence was erroneous I realize but after doing a bunch of reading, in animals where rape isn't the norm...basically, in species where courtship of some kind is involved, rape is rarely performed by the dominant pack members...it is, instead, far more often committed by the lowest ranks of the group, the ones who cannot, by courting means, find a mate. Basically a move of desperation. I'm contrasting this with human behavior where the instances of rape are far more...well, let's face it, they're far more depraved than something as simple as desperation.

(August 11, 2012 at 1:58 pm)frankiej Wrote: Rape is bad mm'kaaay.

Just like drugs, mmkay?
Reply
#13
RE: Is rape natural?
CoH: rape happens between humans, but humans are natural beings, hence rape is natural. That does not make it moral or ok, because of just being natural of course.

Also, Its clear you never had much rape threads... Rape is very rarely about sex or sexuality, but about exerting power and control over someone else. If you talked about this before you would know.
Reply
#14
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote:
(August 11, 2012 at 1:58 pm)frankiej Wrote: Rape is bad mm'kaaay.

Just like drugs, mmkay?

Nah, drugs are good, mm'kay.

The two are really not the same at all. You aren't making someone suffer by simply taking drugs.
Cunt
Reply
#15
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 1:48 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Oh FFS CoH, there must be an unambiguous baseline for any speech, precise definitions where we can have a coherent talk. Yours is patently ambiguous. If its a philosophical matter, then its the wrong subforum. You should've clarified what you meant with 'animals'.

Me? Speech? ROFLOL

I can hardly string two words together in front of a crowd, I am not doing any speeches.

I would've put this in the philosophy thread except that it's dealing with biology far more than it's dealing with philosophy. The "human-animal" thing is just a subnote. We all know what divides humans from the rest of the animal kingdom; reasoning and intellect, as Raphiel put it. I'm saying that which divides us from the animal kingdom is also what makes the whole "rape is natural" argument when it comes to human behavior a load of shit. It may be sociological, but a natural impulse to commit rape? Especially with the ways rape is often committed? Rapists are a particularly sinister and disgusting lot of humanity; "natural" impulse really, REALLY does not seem to be what drives people like that, it's something usually far deeper-seated. Emotional trauma, or social status/pressure, for example.

(August 11, 2012 at 2:06 pm)frankiej Wrote:
(August 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Just like drugs, mmkay?

Nah, drugs are good, mm'kay.

The two are really not the same at all. You aren't making someone suffer by simply taking drugs.

Hey, I'm just doing what Mr. Mackey tells me not to do!

I also can't say fuck. I gotta say fudge. :[

I dunno how the rest of the song went...
Reply
#16
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 1:55 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: So does the urge come naturally to you? As naturally as picking your nose?

It obviously comes naturally to some people, hence why there are people out there who rape. Duh.

Quote: I'm pretty sure the urge to pick my nose comes up far more often than the urge to commit a rape, if I pick my nose only once in my life.

Missing the point. Again I'll ask for you to define natural, because nothing you are saying is making it any less so.

Quote: And I'm pretty sure that the same could be said of the vast majority of human beings.

So what, if only one monkey out of a million decides to shit on the floor, it doesn't make that monkey's act of shitting on the floor any less natural.

Quote:The reasons given for why rape occurs in the wild, are to prevent genetic extinction, as I stated before. Bottom of the barrel, no hope of getting laid members of the pack. Yet with human beings it's something that seems to come the fuck from nowhere. It's been seen to happen from and across all walks of life.

How does this make it any less natural?

Quote: The human mind is more advanced. It makes decisions based on information. It doesn't run off of instinct AS much. I'm not saying it is devoid of instinct, far from it, we still operate from it in many ways, but it has higher thought processes beyond just survival, yes? So, if nature is the argument for why rape occurs, then how come it is occurring in ways where a biological imperative such as the one posited by scientists is not present??

You obviously have a misunderstanding of the thought process with which any and all animals decide to commit rape. It's not a reasoned decision, it's an instinctual one. I would think this be rather obvious.

Knowing that, how does your point have any relevance?

Quote: Married men committing rape? Clearly they have a mating source allocated.

I'm still failing to see why this makes it any less natural.

Quote:Men who are attractive, hell, men whose jobs are to fuck attractive women on camera commit rape. Where does that come from?? What "natural" biological impulse says "well you're mating through normal means, BUT FUCK IT, over-ride that shit, and FORCE it on others!" What sense does THAT make, exactly? There's no "natural" explanation for it. A social one, sure, but a natural one? No.

It doesn't make sense, who says it has to make sense for it to be natural?

"No natural explanation"

Seems to me you either have a really big misconception of what natural is, or you have drawn conclusions from your own ignorance. I'm sure biologists and psychologists would disagree with you.

You sound like a creationist who is ignorant of the evidence for evolution, saying that there is no evidence of evolution.


At the risk of being patronising, I already know you get caught up very emotionally in arguments CoH, I find you're doing it again.

Take away the emotional response that rape obviously has, and look at it objectively.
Reply
#17
RE: Is rape natural?
That is why I say these threads usually go south... Rape is such an emotional charged subject that any objective view on it is taken as cold-hearted.


Thread lightly.
Reply
#18
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 2:17 pm)LastPoet Wrote: That is why I say these threads usually go south... Rape is such an emotional charged subject that any objective view on it is takes as cold-hearted.

I think rape is as bad as the next guy, but this whole argument is an objective one, based on clear definitions of what natural entails.

It's really not even debatable.
Reply
#19
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Also, Its clear you never had much rape threads... Rape is very rarely about sex or sexuality, but about exerting power and control over someone else. If you talked about this before you would know.

This claim, again?

If one wishes only to exert power and control over someone else: there's blackmail and physical assault. Rape in particular is a sexual assault, which is often a form of physical assault... one that particularly involves sex.

To say that sex has little to do with sexual assault? ROFLOL
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
Reply
#20
RE: Is rape natural?
(August 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm)LastPoet Wrote: CoH: rape happens between humans, but humans are natural beings, hence rape is natural. That does not make it moral or ok, because of just being natural of course.

Also, Its clear you never had much rape threads... Rape is very rarely about sex or sexuality, but about exerting power and control over someone else. If you talked about this before you would know.

*pinches bridge of his nose*

I am ALL TOO AWARE of what rape is about. I endured it QUITE A BIT as a child, do not speak to me as if I am somehow unaware of what it's about. It IS about sexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiolog...Human_rape

Quote:Thornhill and Palme write that "In short, a man can have many children, with little inconvenience to himself; a woman can have only a few, and with great effort." Females therefore tend to be more choosy with partners. Rape is seen as one potential strategy for males for achieving reproductive success. They point to several other factors indicating that rape may be a reproductive strategy. It is during the potentially childbearing years that women most often are rape victims. Rapists usually do not use more force than necessary to subdue their victims which is argued to be the case since physically injuring the victims would reduce the chance of reproduction. Furthermore, "In many cultures rape is treated as a crime against the victim's husband."

To which was replied:

Quote:Anthropologist Edward H. Hagen states in his Evolutionary Psychology FAQ from 2002 that he believes there is no clear evidence for the hypothesis that rape is adaptive. He believes the adaptivity of rape is possible, but claims there is not enough evidence to be certain one way or the other. However, he encourages such evidence to be obtained: "Whether human males possess psychological adaptations for rape will only be answered by careful studies seeking evidence for such cognitive specializations. To not seek such evidence is like failing to search a suspect for a concealed weapon." He also describes some conditions in the ancestral environment during which the reproductive gains from rape may have outweighed the costs:

"High status males may be have been able to coerce matings with little fear of reprisal."
"Low status women (e.g., orphans) may have been particularly vulnerable to being raped because males need not have feared reprisals from the woman's family."
"During war, raping enemy women may have had few negative repercussions."
"Men who were low status, who were likely to remain low status, and who had few opportunities to invest in kin may have realized reproductive benefits that outweighed the considerable costs (e.g., reprisal by the woman's family)."

Something to consider, that. Especially for me, because that might actually debunk my argument that rape is not natural in human beings.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Without rape, most animal species would go extinct Alexmahone 34 4281 May 25, 2018 at 11:25 am
Last Post: sdelsolray
  Is Rape Natural? Part 2, 2014 Edition Whateverist 91 12612 August 6, 2014 at 4:00 am
Last Post: Mystical
  RE:Is rape natural? Ever 15 3959 May 29, 2014 at 6:51 pm
Last Post: Ksa
  Evolution VS Natural Selection [minute physics] pocaracas 2 1288 January 25, 2014 at 4:19 am
Last Post: pocaracas
  Childhood repression - new 'rape game' JollyForr 6 3942 February 20, 2012 at 2:50 am
Last Post: Autumnlicious
  DNA, IC, natural selection and debating a Creationist MarcusF 11 4126 June 8, 2011 at 6:31 am
Last Post: MarcusF
  Natural Selection Strikes Again Minimalist 21 7713 August 26, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)