Atheist and ex-gay?

[The Grand Nudger]

Jesus fucking christ Lion.......sigh...okay -


Well, if I was the type of person who demanded marriage equality on the basis that - being "born that way'' - I have simply have no choice but to be [hetero], ([opposite] sex attraction only,) then I would surely have to get a divorce right?

I mean, if the partner of a totally and absolutely [straight, straight, straight, straight] … man suffered a medical trauma and lost [her] external [femininity], such a person would presumably find it impossible to spend the rest of their life with someone whose [femininity] was now ambiguous....closer to a [man]...androgynous.

Hopefully neither you nor your spouse ever go through something like breast/testicular cancer......all I had to do was change the gender of the fucking pronouns and adjectives and you're shopping for spouses all of a sudden....another example of that moral fiber I'm always hearing about?

[Ryantology]

Well, if I was the type of person who demanded marriage equality on the basis that - being "born that way'' - I have simply have no choice but to be gay, (same sex attraction only,) then I would surely have to get a divorce right?

I don't really know if people are born gay and are innately tied to their orientation. What I do know is that the major reason that question is asked is because religious scumfucks attempt to justify their discrimination against LGBT individuals by implying that it's a choice. I don't know what causes people to like one gender or another any more than I know what makes me favor brunettes over blondes. What I do know is that it only matters to the religious scumfucks. To me, it doesn't make one fucking bit of difference what causes it, because unlike religious scumfucks, I don't need to justify treating another human being as an equal. I don't need Christ to tell me to love my neighbor. Even if it is a choice, so what?

I realize that is dodging your question, but there's no answer to that question. I'm sure some would, and perhaps some would not. There are many, many people in this world who stay in marriages that have little or no sexual potential, for all kinds of reasons.

[The Grand Nudger]

There's a really simple way that any religious shit-wit could demonstrate the "choice" status of sexuality that they feel is so important. They could "choose" to go out and blow the next guy they meet.

[sleep]

if you're ashamed of being a femmy gay man, and you're able to change that aspect to yourself, what's to prevent you from being a 'straight acting' gay man?

I've tried. Most people can't just change their personality like that, especially such a drastic change. Sports just don't interest me, neither do cars, neither do other stereotypical "guy" stuff. I hate most heavy metal and rap (the only music straight men seem to be socially allowed to like). And I hate rough-housing, I'm not tough at all.

Also, perhaps you met more bad lesbians because you said you "kinda" are one... and I met more bad gay men because I am one. Because anyone I know who isn't a gay man says the same thing you did, that their friends are, they know plenty of good ones, etc. Because you didn't try to date them and don't know them on that level, so you don't see their bad sides. I guess straight people have them to.

[Faith No More]

So, you've admitted that you can't change your personality, but somehow you think you can change your sexuality?

[Napoléon]

I've tried. Most people can't just change their personality like that, especially such a drastic change. Sports just don't interest me, neither do cars, neither do other stereotypical "guy" stuff. I hate most heavy metal and rap (the only music straight men seem to be socially allowed to like). And I hate rough-housing, I'm not tough at all.

Maybe stop caring about pathetic stereo-types in the first place and just enjoy whatever the hell you enjoy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sports, cars, and stereotypical guy stuff don't interest me either amigo, no worries on that count. Most heavy metal and rap is shit (but that's not unique to heavy metal or rap). Maybe you're too hung up on what you think (or what others think) it means to be masculine? You're swinging richard yes? Whatever you do is ipso facto masculine -for you-...and that's perfectly okaaay. I'm okay, you're okay...we're all okay..lol.

[TaraJo]

if you're ashamed of being a femmy gay man, and you're able to change that aspect to yourself, what's to prevent you from being a 'straight acting' gay man?

I've tried. Most people can't just change their personality like that, especially such a drastic change. Sports just don't interest me, neither do cars, neither do other stereotypical "guy" stuff. I hate most heavy metal and rap (the only music straight men seem to be socially allowed to like). And I hate rough-housing, I'm not tough at all.

So, you think that forcing yourself to be heterosexual will somehow make you magically start liking football and rap music? How's that work?

How's this: if you don't like those traits about yourself, why don't you try to change those traits instead of changing your sexual orientation? Like I said, science has pretty much proven that not only can sexual orientation not be changed, but trying is harmful. Personality traits like musical tastes, though, that doesn't work the same way. Changing your personality might be hard, but I think it would be easier than changing your sexual orientation.

Also, perhaps you met more bad lesbians because you said you "kinda" are one... and I met more bad gay men because I am one. Because anyone I know who isn't a gay man says the same thing you did, that their friends are, they know plenty of good ones, etc. Because you didn't try to date them and don't know them on that level, so you don't see their bad sides. I guess straight people have them to.

It's one of the difficult things about being single in general: no good options. Truth is, if there were a perfect guy out there, you know, has a great job, good personality, doesn't embarrass himself or others, all that stuff, he probably isn't going to be single. I mean, if you were dating the perfect man, would you break up with him? I know I wouldn't. If he did find himself single, somehow, it wouldn't be long before he winds up in a relationship again (unless he specifically isn't looking for a relationship, which, again, puts him in the 'unattainable' category).

Thing is, all this applies to heterosexual relationships, too. If a woman is Ms. Perfect, she isn't going to be single too long. If she has some huge, glaring flaw, yeah, she's going to be single because she chases away potential suitors.

[Ryantology]

I've tried. Most people can't just change their personality like that, especially such a drastic change. Sports just don't interest me, neither do cars, neither do other stereotypical "guy" stuff. I hate most heavy metal and rap (the only music straight men seem to be socially allowed to like). And I hate rough-housing, I'm not tough at all.

You don't need to change your personality, because living with whatever orientation you have does not mean you have to adhere to stereotypes to legitimize yourself. Be whatever makes you comfortable.

Also, perhaps you met more bad lesbians because you said you "kinda" are one... and I met more bad gay men because I am one. Because anyone I know who isn't a gay man says the same thing you did, that their friends are, they know plenty of good ones, etc. Because you didn't try to date them and don't know them on that level, so you don't see their bad sides. I guess straight people have them to.

I've seen people of all varieties think there's no one out there, or that everyone in their preferred demographic is flawed in some way. It's not true. It'll make finding a partner more difficult if you're discriminating in your taste, but being gay does not automatically force a person to adopt certain character traits.

I would suggest not fighting against yourself like this. If you like men, keep liking men. Keep seeking them. You'll find one if you're persistent and you learn from your failures. Trying to be straight when you aren't is essentially living in denial, and would that really make you happier?

[sleep]

Sports, cars, and stereotypical guy stuff don't interest me either amigo, no worries on that count. Most heavy metal and rap is shit (but that's not unique to heavy metal or rap). Maybe you're too hung up on what you think (or what others think) it means to be masculine? You're swinging richard yes? Whatever you do is ipso facto masculine -for you-...and that's perfectly okaaay. I'm okay, you're okay...we're all okay..lol.

Swinging Richard? What's that? If it's this, then no. Where did you get that from?

And why does anything a guy does have to be masculine though? Again, I realize this is society's fault, but, over the course of nearly 20 years, has made me feel embarrassed, ashamed, self-hatred.

Personality traits like musical tastes, though, that doesn't work the same way. Changing your personality might be hard, but I think it would be easier than changing your sexual orientation.

I actually don't know about that... sexuality almost seems easier to change, and I'd get more pride out of it.

It's one of the difficult things about being single in general: no good options. Truth is, if there were a perfect guy out there, you know, has a great job, good personality, doesn't embarrass himself or others, all that stuff, he probably isn't going to be single. I mean, if you were dating the perfect man, would you break up with him? I know I wouldn't. If he did find himself single, somehow, it wouldn't be long before he winds up in a relationship again (unless he specifically isn't looking for a relationship, which, again, puts him in the 'unattainable' category).

Thing is, all this applies to heterosexual relationships, too. If a woman is Ms. Perfect, she isn't going to be single too long. If she has some huge, glaring flaw, yeah, she's going to be single because she chases away potential suitors.

This is so fucking true. All the great guys I met were taken. Any good guy who comes out of the closet becomes taken in a long-term relationship within 5 minutes. Those of us who remain are probably garbage in some way (or just considered unattractive).

You don't need to change your personality, because living with whatever orientation you have does not mean you have to adhere to stereotypes to legitimize yourself. Be whatever makes you comfortable.

So then, shouldn't a straight guy be able to be a bit feminine like I am, without being stigmatized so much? Most people don't understand that. I should, by your logic, be able to tell people I'm straight without them questioning it. But nope, I can't. Oh well.