Personal revelation vs. free will

[Drich]

Well, it was a simple enough question I would have thought. Answer it or don't answer it, whatever you feel like doing. Just don't dance around it and then pretend you answered it but I'm not intellectual enough to understand the answer. Yes I am in an emotionally impaired condition right now, in fact it's worsened over the last twenty minutes to the point where I'd better sign off and go to bed while I still can; however even I can spot when the Emperor has no clothes.

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And on that note, and in that spirit, I really had better sign out before someone comes to grief.

Free will is removed when one's instinct for self preservation over takes their will to rebell. The indivisual will is suppressed for the sake of eternal life. which seems to be the case with everyone I have spoken with here. "In that if God only provided absolute proof I would obey." However if one does not care to live with a given deity forever and is not afraid to face destruction or eternal damnation then free will is restored.

For instance If Allah turns out to be "the God" then I (baring devine intervention) would still spit in his eye, and gladly accept my eternal fate.

[pgrimes15]

That's a very good question Stimbo. Many of my extended family are believers (not all go to church regularly) and when I am discussing the issue with them I am repeatedly hit with the mantra "god doesn't want robots" as an explaination for why yahweh keeps himself hidden. Often this is accompanied, sometimes in the same sentence, with "I know god exists". It has never occured to me to counter with "are you a robot then?".
Rest assured I will be raising it at the next opportunity.

My cousin was recently talking to an elderly woman from her church who was complaining about the length of time she was waiting for an NHS appointment for a hip replacement. My cousin, who has experience in these matters, suggested that she phoned the hospital to say she would be prepared to accept a last minute cancellation slot for the operation. This she did, and then prayed for a quick appointment. 45 minutes later the hospital called her back to say a slot had come up for the following week. This was chalked up as an answered prayer.
I wondered whether, in time, this story would be related, but without the calling the hospital bit, to make it more "miraculous". Not exactly lying, but putting a spin on the story.
Of course this is just anecdotal, but made me suspect that many if not all stories of personal revelation contain an element of exaggeration.

Regards

Grimesy

[jonb]

For instance If Allah turns out to be "the God" then I (baring devine intervention) would still spit in his eye, and gladly accept my eternal fate.

If your beliefs turn out to be true, I think you are in danger of going to hell. Because, are you not trying to prescribe what god is or isn't? And could the accusation be levelled at you that you are moved more by your sects religious practices, and agenda than you are by a love of god?

[The Grand Nudger]

Free will is removed when one's instinct for self preservation over takes their will to rebell. The indivisual will is suppressed for the sake of eternal life. which seems to be the case with everyone I have spoken with here. "In that if God only provided absolute proof I would obey." However if one does not care to live with a given deity forever and is not afraid to face destruction or eternal damnation then free will is restored.

Bullshit Drich........I would not bend the knee to your cunt of a god. So my choice is bend the knee to a cunt or face destruction? Yeah...sounds wonderful. Good thing that this particular piece of bullshit only means "Bend the knee to Drich's innermost desires".

[Forsaken]

What if some other god exists who is masquerading as the Christian god? Then the revelation is ambiguous, and the "born again" Christians misinterpreted the revelation!

[Cyberman]

Drich has already - twice - entertained the idea that other religious faiths might have more reality of being 'true' than his own and what his reaction would be in that eventuality; as such he would be in exactly the same position as a permanent atheist such as myself. I appreciate that this is going to be a scary thought for some people, but what if it turns out there are no gods and never have been? No YHWH, no JC, no Allah or Ganesh or Kali or Quetzecoatl or Dawkins' "Ju-Ju under the mountain"? I'm forming no conclusions on any afterlife, for personal reasons which I may only share with those I trust. But can Drich and his fellow religiosos process the idea of no post-mortem judgement because of there never being anything to make such judgements?

[Gambit]

I'm too tired for the question in the OP, but wasn't the entire point of the Truman Show exactly what you stated, Stimbo? I mean intentionally so. A quick Google search shows that even believers have drawn the comparisons. Christof actually refers to himself as the creator, too.

[Cyberman]

I must admit it's been quite a while since I saw it, but I rather suspect you're right about that. It's probably why my attempt to draw the analogy sort of worked, if that was the intention anyway. I count it among my top ten favourite films, even though I blame it for starting the whole damn "Celebrity Big Brother" genre.

[Gambit]

The end is so awesome. It's one of few movies where I've been on the edge of my seat with clenched fists, waiting anxiously for the conclusion.

[Cyberman]

It really is an amazing ending to an amazing film. It's also a little ambiguous, if you think about it. There is a promo for the show and several shots of viewers watching it, but you don't actually know whether Truman has really left his bubble to come into our world or if there's another even larger layer of the show on the other side of the exit door. That's how I see it anyway.