The abortion paradox

[Neo-Scholastic]

It's not an unborn baby... it's a potential baby. HUGE difference. A woman can conceive at the wrong time and the fertilized egg doesn't implant in the uterus and gets passed as regular menstrual flow, is that abortion? No. But that is an interesting debate in and of itself, when does a fetus become a baby? at birth? when it could live on it's own? how many medical allowances? I believe the youngest gestational age for survival is around 24 weeks (out of a 40 week pregnancy)... but being born that early most who survive have serious, life-long medical issues, not to mention million dollar NICU bills.

And a child is just a potential adult...whatever you choose to call it fetus, unborn baby, whatever, it is still a human, a very very young and vulnerable one. We all have a moral obligations to human life even in its earliest stages. Failures to implant occur naturally and are very different from actively removing an otherwise viable embryo. It's like comparing a heart attack to a gun shot wound.

The only contradiction is in the hearts of people who need to convince themselves that abortion is not evil so they can continue having guilt free sex and avoid any real responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

[Erinome]

And a child is just a potential adult...whatever you choose to call it fetus, unborn baby, whatever, it is still a human, a very very young and vulnerable one. We all have a moral obligations to human life even in its earliest stages. Failures to implant occur naturally and are very different from actively removing an otherwise viable embryo. It's like comparing a heart attack to a gun shot wound.

Who do you believe causes heart attacks, or at least allows heart attacks? I'm just wondering if your god is in control, because if he is, then he also is the biggest abortionist in the universe.

You may have the opinion that you have a moral obligation to a fetus, but until you have a fetus in your body, you have a moral obligation, in my opinion, to shut up about it. Where in the rancid bible does it say you have a moral obligation to what other people do with their own bodies?

The only contradiction is in the hearts of people who need to convince themselves that abortion is not evil so they can continue having guilt free sex and avoid any real responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

I had 2 babies while my tubes were tied. I made a responsible decision after my second child to have them tied, and had two more babies after that, and got pregnant again after the 4th baby. I terminated the pregnancy. I had 4 c-sections, in 5 years, and the doctors said that if I made it to my 3rd trimester, my uterus would likely rupture, and I'd have minutes to live before I bled out, and both the baby, and I would perish. I made an adoption plan for my 4th child.

Not everything is black and fucking white. If you think so, you're either stupid or crazy.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Also, why is unborn life so sacred, and already born life not so sacred? Do you support the death penalty?

Typical response from the morally confused. There is a difference between the punishment of the guilty versus slaughter of the innocent. That said I do not support the death penalty, for practical, not philosophical reasons.

Do you support social programs that feed and house people without means?

Yes.

Does every born child not deserve love?

Every child deserves to be loved. The first act of love is allowing it to live. Stop lying to yourself. Killing a child is not an act of mercy.

What if the unborn child is unloved, and the mother isn't willing to stop drinking and doing drugs while she's pregnant? Are you willing to take care of and love born people whose parents are unwilling?

Of course. Aren't you? Or are you saying that because you don't want to love and care for the unwanted children, they should be killed?

But there are such things as unwanted babies. There are. That's why so many born babies die every year. Neglect, abuse, disposal in dumpsters. Those babies are unwanted, obviously.

So your solution is to kill babies so they they won't be neglected. Is that mercy?

you don't have any right whatsoever to prevent someone from having an abortion, if an abortion is what someone wants.

Unless we have a moral obligation to very very young and vulnerable human beings.

Money is required to properly care for an infant. A lot of people don't have the money, and there's very little help out there for people without the money to do it. It's not "the love of money", it's the not having any money. Get it?

Therefore your solution is to kill all the problem children. The person who aborts to cut expenses greedily places a higher value on their own comfort that the life of another human being. Greed drives them to kill.

I think you should have the freedom to either have an abortion or not.

While you are at it, feel free to kill all the Jews, blacks and homosexuals. At one time they too were believed to be less than human. It's so easy to kill when you believe someone isn't really a person. But don't you dare turn away from the ultrasound while you jab scissors into the back of their tiny little skulls...

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Where in the rancid bible does it say you have a moral obligation to what other people do with their own bodies?

You're talking about a process that removes the living body of one human from inside the body of another. Two bodies. Two lives. A truly moral choice would take both lives into consideration.

[Erinome]

Typical response from the morally confused. There is a difference between the punishment of the guilty versus slaughter of the innocent. That said I do not support the death penalty, for practical, not philosophical reasons.

So a woman is to be punished because you have a moral obligation to a fetus? Because the fetus hasn't had the chance to lose any innocence, a woman who doesn't want to go through a pregnancy and have a baby should be punished? Who the fuck is morally confused here again?

Your appeals to emotionalism, by using terms such as "slaughter of the innocent", is pathetic. Try to be reasonable instead, maybe? It helps.

Do you support social programs that feed and house people without means?

Yes.

Too bad we don't live in a perfect world, eh?

Does every born child not deserve love?

Every child deserves to be loved. The first act of love is allowing it to live. Stop lying to yourself. Killing a child is not an act of mercy.

Of course. Aren't you? Or are you saying that because you don't want to love and care for the unwanted children, they should be killed?

Nope. I love and care for my children, and a few other people's children too, but I can't care for the millions of children who aren't aborted, and die horrible, slow deaths at the hands of selfish parents.

There needs to be an option for those who can't or don't wish to love and care for their children. There's too many unwanted children in the world as it is. I know it's hard to see from inside your godbubble, but it's true. Abortion is the solution for some of those people.

So your solution is to kill babies so they they won't be neglected. Is that mercy?

Who said anything about killing babies? I am talking about abortion.

you don't have any right whatsoever to prevent someone from having an abortion, if an abortion is what someone wants.

Unless we have a moral obligation to very very young and vulnerable human beings.

You have a moral obligation to the fetus in your body, and no one else. End of story.

Therefore your solution is to kill all the problem children. The person who aborts to cut expenses greedily places a higher value on their own comfort that the life of another human being. Greed drives them to kill.

No. I don't think anyone should kill babies. I'm confused, because in the next sentence you said 'abort'.

You talk as if everyone in the world already has this standard of comfort. That's just not true. Some people can't even afford to feed themselves. To cut expenses, you first have to have something to spend. Being able to reason that since you can't care for yourself, and therefore can't care for a baby doesn't make you greedy. Having an abortion doesn't make you a killer.

Every month when I have menses, I am technically having an abortion. My body's natural processes make me do that, not greed.

While you are at it, feel free to kill all the Jews, blacks and homosexuals. At one time they too were believed to be less than human.

At one time???



That time has passed, right? Because no one believes that about Jews, blacks, and homosexuals anymore, right? Fuck, you do live in a dream world.

I care about unborn babies, sure, but I also care about the women who carry them. They're humans, and they have rights to their own bodies, fetuses and you do not.

It's so easy to kill when you believe someone isn't really a person. But don't you dare turn away from the ultrasound while you jab scissors into the back of their tiny little skulls...

Sweetheart, I've held the hand of a 12 year old while she had an abortion. It's not pretty, and it is sad. I don't think anyone in their right mind would be pro-abortion. I know I am not, but I am pro-choice. Now that 12 year old girl gets to put her life back together, instead of bearing her father's child, and having a c-section before the 8th fucking grade, because she only weighs 84 pounds, and her body can't accommodate a vaginal birth. I have compassion for born people. Why the fuck don't you?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...

In Bibical Christianity, a monogamous, loving, committed, heterosexual marriage, sanctified by God, is less likely to end in infidelity, extra-marital promiscuity, family breakdown, unwanted babies, single-mothers, custody battles, family law litigation, unhappy childhoods, gender identity confusion, and the long term social pathologies which tax payers have to provide for years later after the initial damage is done.

TIL that Godly ethics are utilitarian.

[Erinome]

Where in the rancid bible does it say you have a moral obligation to what other people do with their own bodies?

You're talking about a process that removes the living body of one human from inside the body of another. Two bodies. Two lives. A truly moral choice would take both lives into consideration.

You're wrong. I took four lives into consideration. The other 3 children in my care deserve to have me around. They deserve a mother who isn't on bed rest, awaiting almost certain death. A truly moral person wouldn't risk her own life for the life of a cluster of cells, that will probably kill her, while never drawing a breath of it's own, and leave 3 children without a loving mother.

Only an asshole christian with fantastical, irrational religious beliefs would do that.

[Minimalist]

Actually, Yahweh the Bloody Handed doesn't seem to be overly concerned about fetuses.

16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Hosea 13

Now I await the excuses that you assholes make for your god.

[Undeceived]

16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Hosea 13

God is letting free will and sin run its course. In 2 Kings 17:5 this prophecy is fulfilled by the Assyrians. The Samarians' wicked deeds turned out to have consequences, like most sin. And God predicted it would be so.

[Darth]

God is letting free will and sin run its course. In 2 Kings 17:5 this prophecy is fulfilled by the Assyrians. The Samarians' wicked deeds turned out to have consequences, like most sin. And God predicted it would be so.

What exactly were those Samarian babies getting up to to deserve that? And the mothers? God predicted it did he, but did nothing to stop it? Oh I see, he was allowing free will to rein by not intervening, unlike in every other chapter of that foul book.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

I'm rather undecided on abortion...but to the people against it: what's the difference having sex with a condom, and killing a fertilized egg? Aren't you preventing a life in both instances?