I Would Like To Talk to Atheists Who Aren't Assholes. Do Any of You Exist?

[Darkstar]

Well, I'm Catholic and I've been around Catholics all my life and I have some observations.

Most Catholics are nice people.

And you expect us to believe that there is no bias in your thinking, at all. Maybe it is because you are Catholic and have been around others like you that you think they are nice. Why is it that there are all these stories of people's Catholic friends ostrachizing them when they come out of the closet as atheists? If you were a known atheist all of your life, I bet they would have treated you differently. Sure, they aren't all jerks, but to say they're mostly nice without considering our point of view seems a little baised.

[Simon Moon]

Maybe it is because you are Catholic and have been around others like you that you think they are nice. Why is it that there are all these stories of people's Catholic friends ostrachizing them when they come out of the closet as atheists? If you were a known atheist all of your life, I bet they would have treated you differently. Sure, they aren't all jerks, but to say they're mostly nice without considering our point of view seems a little baised.

Good point.

Other members of the 'in group' are always treated better than the 'out group'. It's evolutionary based human nature.

[Apatheist]

Ok folks, I've been lurking here a little while and between this forum and Reddit, I think it's fair to say there are plenty of atheists who come off as assholes. It's hard to avoid a superior tone when looking at religion/faith/deism rationally. I once wrote a speech in college I wanted to title "God is a Deadbeat Dad." My instructor convinced me it was a bad idea, asking me if I heard anything the preachers in the plaza had to say after I read signs that said "Fags burn in hell" etc. Right or wrong, no one listens when you're being a dick, and it was one of the best lessons I ever learned.

In the off chance Blackrook is still reading, here's what I have to say, sans assholery:

Most people in this thread are calling you a troll because you haven't really asked a question they can answer. I infer from your original post that you're entertaining doubts about the nature and/or existence of god and you're looking for someone who had a similar experience to share their thoughts, so here goes.

I started out Catholic, my mother married a Baptist/Evangelical and until I was about 18 I spent most of my free time either at my job (good ole' protestant work ethic) or at church. I was a card carrying, bible-thumping, Word-studying, school-praying, have-you-heard-the-good-news disciple of Christ. This isn't the convert forum so I'm not going to relate my whole story, but for several reasons I began to doubt and by the time I had lost my faith in the Abrahamic god completely I still held on to the ritual, even if it felt like a lie, because I was afraid of losing the community and afraid of what they would think if I came out atheist (so to speak). It was very scary and painful to lose that certainty of eternal life and a loving creator to look out for me.

To this day I have no problem with faith, in fact I think it's necessary to lead a fulfilling life. It took me a while, but I replaced my faith in god with faith in people, whether specific friends and family or humanity as a whole, and the love they have the capacity to show each other. My mother has shown me more love in my short years than I ever read about in the bible. And as long as anyone professing faith understands that it is a belief and not a certainty I have no reason to argue.

Religion is the problem because it ignores the... personalness(?) of god. I'm not saying there's no value in hearing what others have to say on the nature of your belief, but when you accept someone's authority on the subject over your own you've missed the point at best and done yourself harm at worst. God is whatever you believe he is, based on your life experiences, historical and contemporary observations, and your interpretations of them. When I was member of a large baptist church we had a pastor who invited the men in the congregation to come down and dance in front of the pulpit at the end of service. He based it on some passage about King David dancing in the streets to glorify god. The next week there was a big apology on the front of the church newsletter and he was fired by the elders a couple weeks later. I was disappointed in him for apologizing, and angry that the elders could see neither where he was coming from (personally or biblically) nor the value in a joyous show of our faith. My point being it's a small example of tradition (religion) stamping out reason, and extrapolated to the whole of Christianity, parallels the idea that there are people who can better understand the nature of god than you in spite of having the same tool set.

Whatever you decide you believe it has to be up to you, or you'll never be comfortable with it.

For my part, I still feel like a better christian than most of the christians I know in that I follow Christ's teachings even if I no longer believe in his divinity. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they can't find moral value in the bible, though I believe you can arrive to the same conclusions without it. To be honest, I'm one of those "unknowable" agnostics and I think that debating the existence of god is mental masturbation. If we can't know, then it should have no bearing on the life we live, and time spent thinking on it is wasted. The only conversion you're likely to find here is an understanding of knowledge and how atheists/agnostics perceive it. No one is going to convince you of a deity's non-existence by debunking Noah's Ark or the sun standing still, etc.

The best part about being agnostic though, is that it frees your imagination. You can invent any belief you like and it never seems more outlandish than what you used to believe. Sometimes I like to think that if there are infinite parallel universes, every universe is someone's private heaven and someone's private hell. That there's a version of me somewhere that got everything he ever hoped for and never had to hurt anyone to get it, and the same for everyone else I know and love. Sure that's ridiculous. I know that logically, but it gives me the warm and fuzzies to think about it. And that's the whole point of a modern God in the first place isn't it?

Feel free to PM me if you'd rather have a private chat.

[System of Solace]

Most people in this thread are calling you a troll because you haven't really asked a question they can answer.

Oh really?

No. He comes off as a troll because he is whining about ONE PERSON (Minimalist) and then decides all atheists are assholes. He makes an intro saying "Hope I don't get banned" and then makes a thread titled "I Would Like To Talk to Atheists Who Aren't Assholes. Do Any of You Exist?".

Pick 1,
A- Asshole who exaggerates the actions of one person
B- Troll

[Blackrook]

Ok folks, I've been lurking here a little while and between this forum and Reddit, I think it's fair to say there are plenty of atheists who come off as assholes. It's hard to avoid a superior tone when looking at religion/faith/deism rationally. I once wrote a speech in college I wanted to title "God is a Deadbeat Dad." My instructor convinced me it was a bad idea, asking me if I heard anything the preachers in the plaza had to say after I read signs that said "Fags burn in hell" etc. Right or wrong, no one listens when you're being a dick, and it was one of the best lessons I ever learned.

In the off chance Blackrook is still reading, here's what I have to say, sans assholery:

Most people in this thread are calling you a troll because you haven't really asked a question they can answer. I infer from your original post that you're entertaining doubts about the nature and/or existence of god and you're looking for someone who had a similar experience to share their thoughts, so here goes.

I started out Catholic, my mother married a Baptist/Evangelical and until I was about 18 I spent most of my free time either at my job (good ole' protestant work ethic) or at church. I was a card carrying, bible-thumping, Word-studying, school-praying, have-you-heard-the-good-news disciple of Christ. This isn't the convert forum so I'm not going to relate my whole story, but for several reasons I began to doubt and by the time I had lost my faith in the Abrahamic god completely I still held on to the ritual, even if it felt like a lie, because I was afraid of losing the community and afraid of what they would think if I came out atheist (so to speak). It was very scary and painful to lose that certainty of eternal life and a loving creator to look out for me.

To this day I have no problem with faith, in fact I think it's necessary to lead a fulfilling life. It took me a while, but I replaced my faith in god with faith in people, whether specific friends and family or humanity as a whole, and the love they have the capacity to show each other. My mother has shown me more love in my short years than I ever read about in the bible. And as long as anyone professing faith understands that it is a belief and not a certainty I have no reason to argue.

Religion is the problem because it ignores the... personalness(?) of god. I'm not saying there's no value in hearing what others have to say on the nature of your belief, but when you accept someone's authority on the subject over your own you've missed the point at best and done yourself harm at worst. God is whatever you believe he is, based on your life experiences, historical and contemporary observations, and your interpretations of them. When I was member of a large baptist church we had a pastor who invited the men in the congregation to come down and dance in front of the pulpit at the end of service. He based it on some passage about King David dancing in the streets to glorify god. The next week there was a big apology on the front of the church newsletter and he was fired by the elders a couple weeks later. I was disappointed in him for apologizing, and angry that the elders could see neither where he was coming from (personally or biblically) nor the value in a joyous show of our faith. My point being it's a small example of tradition (religion) stamping out reason, and extrapolated to the whole of Christianity, parallels the idea that there are people who can better understand the nature of god than you in spite of having the same tool set.

Whatever you decide you believe it has to be up to you, or you'll never be comfortable with it.

For my part, I still feel like a better christian than most of the christians I know in that I follow Christ's teachings even if I no longer believe in his divinity. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they can't find moral value in the bible, though I believe you can arrive to the same conclusions without it. To be honest, I'm one of those "unknowable" agnostics and I think that debating the existence of god is mental masturbation. If we can't know, then it should have no bearing on the life we live, and time spent thinking on it is wasted. The only conversion you're likely to find here is an understanding of knowledge and how atheists/agnostics perceive it. No one is going to convince you of a deity's non-existence by debunking Noah's Ark or the sun standing still, etc.

The best part about being agnostic though, is that it frees your imagination. You can invent any belief you like and it never seems more outlandish than what you used to believe. Sometimes I like to think that if there are infinite parallel universes, every universe is someone's private heaven and someone's private hell. That there's a version of me somewhere that got everything he ever hoped for and never had to hurt anyone to get it, and the same for everyone else I know and love. Sure that's ridiculous. I know that logically, but it gives me the warm and fuzzies to think about it. And that's the whole point of a modern God in the first place isn't it?

Feel free to PM me if you'd rather have a private chat.

Well, I skipped all the hostile responses and got to this one and said to myself, well at least there's ONE person who gets it.

If you're going to welcome newcomers like I was welcomed, then basically you're going to drive off a lot of people.

And actually, I was reluctant to return. Most of you are making a very bad impression and I have to say you're not doing much good for the cause of atheism.

My question to you is, do you act like this in real life? My guess is no. If you acted like this in real life, people would shun and avoid you.

[System of Solace]

Please explain how you were treated badly. If I recall, only minimalist said something offensive, and you then made a thread over ONE post. This thread, which makes generalizations about all atheists because of ONE post. And at some point, you said
"So anyway, if you respond to me with mockery, you will renew my opinion that atheists are nothing but simple-minded morons who can't really debate their way out of a brown paper bag."
"You guys need to prove to me that atheists aren't all a bunch of jerks who can't carry on a civilized conversation."

Stop whining.

[Erinome]

Well, I skipped all the hostile responses and got to this one and said to myself, well at least there's ONE person who gets it.

If you're going to welcome newcomers like I was welcomed, then basically you're going to drive off a lot of people.

And actually, I was reluctant to return. Most of you are making a very bad impression and I have to say you're not doing much good for the cause of atheism.

My question to you is, do you act like this in real life? My guess is no. If you acted like this in real life, people would shun and avoid you.

You skipped past a lot of people who were just being honest with you. Because you didn't like what they had to say, you call it hostile.

We're not the ones who are in need of making a good impression here. You're the new guy, and from what I can tell, your skin is too thin to hack it here, or in any other forum where people do not nod their heads in agreement with everything you say.

Like I, and others have said before in this very thread: Atheism is not a cause. It's just not. Maybe you want it to be, but it's not, so get over it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in real life I am blunt and honest. The people who don't appreciate that are not around me. That's fine with me. Why would I want to kiss the asses of a bunch of pussies?

[Darkstar]

Well, I'm a distressed Catholic looking for answers to some very important questions, but so far the atheists who have responded to me have been rude and obnoxious.

And you are confirming my opinion, which I formed in another forum, that most atheists are assholes and really, they don't know how to debate or carry on a civilized conversation.

So really, if you guys don't get wise you are going to drive me off and I will leave with the impression that there's no point in talking to atheists.

And well, if the point of this forum is to gain converts to your cause, you guys are seriously blowing it if you don't act like normal people instead of jerks.

Well, I skipped all the hostile responses and got to this one and said to myself, well at least there's ONE person who gets it.

If you're going to welcome newcomers like I was welcomed, then basically you're going to drive off a lot of people.

And actually, I was reluctant to return. Most of you are making a very bad impression and I have to say you're not doing much good for the cause of atheism.

My question to you is, do you act like this in real life? My guess is no. If you acted like this in real life, people would shun and avoid you.

Don't they already shun and avoid us because we're atheists? (that was a joke...maybe). You came in here and accused everyone here of being jerks when we didn't do anything to you. You can't tell someone who has too thin of skin that they do because you'll offend them in doing so. You say you formed a negative opinion of us on another atheist forum? Atheists get banned from christian forums for questioning so much as one thing. If anything, we are the ones who get bullied. As far as I know none of the theists currently here are malicious, so they are free to stay as long as they follow the rules. The rules apply evenly here; atheists don't get special treatment. You, also, do not get special treatment. The thing that seems to most offend you is that most people here are unwilling to walk on eggshells to avoid insulting you. So long as you don't say something exceptionally unintelligent, or blatently offend someone (like, realise it or not, in your OP) then you should be fine. The only person who could have really offended you just now was Minimalist. No one was trying to bully you, they were just being frank.

[System of Solace]

By the way,

If you're going to welcome newcomers like I was welcomed, then basically you're going to drive off a lot of people.

You were not insulted a single time in your intro thread. As soon as you begin acting like a douche, you're going to get hate.

And I looked at the time you made this thread vs. the posts on your "Under the Rules of Catholicism, the Vast Majority of People Are Going to Hell". By the time you made this thread, Minimalist was the only one to post something remotely offensive.

[Cinjin]

I just caught up with this thread (late as usual), and all I can think after reading eight pages of whining is:


Who the fuck cares what this self-righteous little asshat thinks about atheists, atheism or absolutely anything that his whiny little brain spews forth??????

I'm reasonably sure this little nuisance is a constant irritation to EVERYONE who has ever had the dissatisfaction of encountering him.

Seriously though ... reading his posts in this thread was like having a splinter in your hand all day that you decided to leave there for some twisted sense of curiosity.

Fucking awful.