Church state question

[tfs13]

Was discussing the issue of C&S. The other argument to me was that the intention was not to keep God out of government, just keep government out of religion. When I questioned how can you allow god in and now have government get mixed in with religion, I was told God is not religion.

Never heard this rationale before. Is this something new?

(my apologies if this is not in the right section)

[Autumnlicious]

No, it's called trying to have one's cake and eat it too.

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If you have God put into government, then any decision made is subject to passing judgement in the guise of one religion onto the potential functioning of another.

[Reforged]

Not really, bullshit has been around for ages.
Did you ask them how they had come to that sage like conclusion?

[TaraJo]

It's bullshit.

The founders realized the way religious wars were splitting nations in Europe and they wanted to avoid that. They formed a government that specifically left religious matters to the individuals, not the government. If god gets into politics, what's to stop Catholics from forcing protestants from saying the Hail Mary? Or what's to stop Baptists from banning alcohol, even to non-Baptists? Or what's to stop Jews from outlawing pork?

[Darkstar]

"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages."
Richard Lederer

[Polaris]

Was discussing the issue of C&S. The other argument to me was that the intention was not to keep God out of government, just keep government out of religion. When I questioned how can you allow god in and now have government get mixed in with religion, I was told God is not religion.

Never heard this rationale before. Is this something new?

(my apologies if this is not in the right section)

In the United States, the precursor to the Separation of Church and State (the First Amendment) was to protect religious groups from a state-sponsored religion running their lives.

The Separation of Church and State, first mentioned in in the late 19th century by the Supreme Court (it had a pro-religion tone though), did not take on its current meaning of keeping religion out of government until the 1950s....ironic since this was when "under God" was added.

[Minimalist]

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not. [Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]

Try to remind your friends that James Madison was the primary author of the Constitution....not "jesus."

[tfs13]

Thanks.

I also learned Christianity is not a religion during the conversation. After some Google searches I did discover that Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship.

[Minimalist]

An abusive relationship.

[Cyberman]

You bring up an interesting point, tfs. People who want to remove the Church and State separation have the agenda of inserting their god into the political arena, but I wonder if they realise that by the same toke, they would have to accept government interference in Church matters? Something tells me they probably wouldn't take to that particularly well.