Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices

[Darkstar]

For example, Joan of Arc revealed something she knew to the Dauphin of France that convinced him to give her control of the armies of France. Also, she identified him even though another man pretended to be the Dauphin while he hid among the courtiers. And she predicted the result of a battle that was hundreds of miles away.

How does this provide evidence for god? She identified a man in disguise and guessed the winner of a battle correctly and that qualifies as a divine miracle?

In more recent times, Padre Pio performed many miracles, including his stigmata, and he predicted that a certain Polish priest would one day be Pope, and it happened many years later.

If you wait long enough, any prophecy will be fulfilled. Like this one.

But my Dad has other reasons, I think, that have nothing to do with modern miracles.

Modern miracles are really the only evidence for god that is valid. The bible's true origins are hazy, and it is rife with contradictions. Lastly:
An unexplained energy catalyzed the singularity that, eventually caused the world to reach where it is today. Was the catalyst:
A. a little burst of unexplained energy, or
B. An omnipotent, all-knowing sentiency that arose spontaneously from nothing and can exist without physical form
I could go on about the many other problems the god concept runs into, but I'll at least wait until you respond to this post.

[Annik]

The reason atheism is not a logical choice is because it cannot be upheld with any manner of proof.

Faced with an absence of evidence of God, assuming one rejects all the evidence of miracles which I have described, it is not rational to say that there MUST be no God simply because there is no evidence that there is.

It seems to me that many atheists are willing to believe in plenty of other things without any proof, like the existence of intelligent life around other planets.

An agnostic knows there is no evidence either way, so he logically chooses to say there is no way to know and takes that position.

An atheist is taking a position of faith, believing in an unprovable doctrine.

Wrong.

[Blackrook]

Is there anyone here who believes my father is wrong about this?

Yes your father is wrong. But to understand why you'll need to do more than simply offer an argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy.

Yes, it would seem that every atheist has that arrow in his quiver: that every argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

And yet, how many of us make important decisions based on authority?

Do any of you question your teachers who taught you history, mathematics, and biology? After all, the only reason you believe what you believe is because your teachers told you it was true.

And if you look in books to check up on your teachers to confirm what they say, aren't you relying on authority when you do that too?

When it comes down to it, how many of you actually do any independent research to determine that the Battle of Gettysburg was fought on such and such a date and that the South was defeated for all time at Pickett's Charge?

If you were truly freethinkers you wouldn't believe anything your teachers told you or anything you read in books. You would be suspicious of all information and declare that all truth is unknown and unknowable.

And yet, you don't do that.

But at the same time, you blast away at Christians who rely on a book called the Bible for authority that there is a God.

In what way are you better than we are?

And what makes the Bible less reliable than all the books you rely on?

Factual errors, you can pick on, but don't all authors introduce errors into their books?

Every time I read a newspaper article about an event I know about, I see that the article is rife with errors.

But that doesn't mean the event described didn't happen.

If you're going to toss out the Bible than you have to ask yourself what DID happen to the Israelites all those thousands of years. Was everything the Jews wrote about themselves a LIE?

And if it was all a LIE what was the motive to make up all those lies?

Let's face it, the atheist position requires a lot of faith. You have to believe that the entire Bible is one lie after another and none of it never happened and a bunch of Jews got together one day and cooked up a bunch of lies to fool the world.

[System of Solace]

Read my edited post after I debunked that miracle.

Yes, it would seem that every atheist has that arrow in his quiver: that every argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

And yet, how many of us make important decisions based on authority?

Do any of you question your teachers who taught you history, mathematics, and biology? After all, the only reason you believe what you believe is because your teachers told you it was true.

And if you look in books to check up on your teachers to confirm what they say, aren't you relying on authority when you do that too?

When it comes down to it, how many of you actually do any independent research to determine that the Battle of Gettysburg was fought on such and such a date and that the South was defeated for all time at Pickett's Charge?

If you were truly freethinkers you wouldn't believe anything your teachers told you or anything you read in books. You would be suspicious of all information and declare that all truth is unknown and unknowable.

And yet, you don't do that.

This is full of misrepresentation. And why do you believe in those miracles? Somebody else told you they happened-you obviously weren't alive to witness them. So, you are apparently contradicting your own logic. Or, you're making shit up on the spot. Or both.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Yes your father is wrong. But to understand why you'll need to do more than simply offer an argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy.

Yes, it would seem that every atheist has that arrow in his quiver: that every argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

And yet, how many of us make important decisions based on authority?

...

Wow. Defending argument from authority by committing the fallacy of appeal to popularity.

[Blackrook]

Yes, it would seem that every atheist has that arrow in his quiver: that every argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

And yet, how many of us make important decisions based on authority?

...

Wow. Defending argument from authority by committing the fallacy of appeal to popularity.

Wow, I seem to being committing all sorts of logical errors today.

Please explain why you are allowed to crack open a science book and read it and believe what you read without conducting your own experiments to find out if it is true.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...
If you're going to toss out the Bible than you have to ask yourself what DID happen to the Israelites all those thousands of years. Was everything the Jews wrote about themselves a LIE?

And if it was all a LIE what was the motive to make up all those lies?

Let's face it, the atheist position requires a lot of faith. You have to believe that the entire Bible is one lie after another and none of it never happened and a bunch of Jews got together one day and cooked up a bunch of lies to fool the world.

You're confusing the naive notion of Jews conspiring together to make up their history with the concept of Jewish history having arisen from a complex synthesis of and elaboration upon various orally communicated myths and legends over hundreds of years.

[System of Solace]

Wow. Defending argument from authority by committing the fallacy of appeal to popularity.

Wow, I seem to being committing all sorts of logical errors today.

Please explain why you are allowed to crack open a science book and read it and believe what you read without conducting your own experiments to find out if it is true.

And what if you do conduct experiments?

You're playing a version of the "what if" game. "What if everything you think is true is a lie?" Fuck, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. "Nothing exists, it's the government creating everything to control us."

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Wow. Defending argument from authority by committing the fallacy of appeal to popularity.

Wow, I seem to being committing all sorts of logical errors today.

Please explain why you are allowed to crack open a science book and read it and believe what you read without conducting your own experiments to find out if it is true.

I don't just "believe" it. I evaluate it, compare to alternatives and figure out which makes more sense.

[Blackrook]

Wow, I seem to being committing all sorts of logical errors today.

Please explain why you are allowed to crack open a science book and read it and believe what you read without conducting your own experiments to find out if it is true.

And what if you do?

You're relying on authority, which I've heard is a logical fallacy.

And also the weather report.

I mean, it seems illogical to believe the weatherman when he says a tornado is about to hit your town. Better for you to sit in your house and wait until the tornado comes right to your door before you pack up your bags and leave.

---

Wow, I seem to being committing all sorts of logical errors today.

Please explain why you are allowed to crack open a science book and read it and believe what you read without conducting your own experiments to find out if it is true.

And what if you do conduct experiments?

You're playing a version of the "what if" game. "What if everything you think is true is a lie?" Fuck, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. "Nothing exists, it's the government creating everything to control us."

Exactly. But that is the atheist position on all religion.