Why Does Atheism and Left-Wing Politics Usually Go Together?

[A Theist]

....where did Blackrook go? ....he started some interesting discussions....did he bolt?

[Marshmallow]

Personally, I side with the Democrats but only reluctantly. I want to see a party that's going to be serious about protecting us from abuses by corporate elites and when that party comes around, I'm jumping on board ASAP.

Enter Libertarianism. I am a libertarian, and here is why: I believe that no government should be able to tell me what I can and cannot do in the privacy of my own home. Libertarianism is the combination of a conservative economic stance and a liberal social stance, in a nutshell. Though this is not characteristic of EVERY libertarian, most would agree the USA needs to save money and minimize federal control, allowing state and local governments, who have a more direct connection to the people they govern, to do their jobs unopposed. There is no reason people in California should be governed the same, with the same laws and policies, as people in Vermont should.

How this relates: 'liberal' and 'conservative' are adjectives used to describe economic viewpoints. The ideas that the federal government should spend or save money respectively. How an economic policy could correlate with theistic views is beyond me...however...there is a correlation between party membership and religious preference. Generally, republicans tend to be more along Protestant faiths, while a large population of Catholics and Jehova's Witnesses also identify themselves as such. Democrats tend to represent an even mix of all faiths, surprisingly, with a Christian and a Jew for every Atheist you run across. Libertarians are almost exclusively protestant. You could say I'm an odd man out.

[Tino]

And the people lower on the economic bracket feel the opposite happening: they know that no matter how hard they work, they won't be able to get ahead.

TaraJo, I don't know what your economic/financial situation is, but don't buy into this idea. Lots of people get ahead by working hard and dramatically change their economic situation. I did it and you can too. America is the best place in the world to do it, don't believe the naysayers. Work hard, show your boss that you can be counted on to look after his/herinterests, and you'll be rewarded.

[TaraJo]

Personally, I side with the Democrats but only reluctantly. I want to see a party that's going to be serious about protecting us from abuses by corporate elites and when that party comes around, I'm jumping on board ASAP.

Enter Libertarianism. I am a libertarian, and here is why: I believe that no government should be able to tell me what I can and cannot do in the privacy of my own home. Libertarianism is the combination of a conservative economic stance and a liberal social stance, in a nutshell. Though this is not characteristic of EVERY libertarian, most would agree the USA needs to save money and minimize federal control, allowing state and local governments, who have a more direct connection to the people they govern, to do their jobs unopposed. There is no reason people in California should be governed the same, with the same laws and policies, as people in Vermont should.

How this relates: 'liberal' and 'conservative' are adjectives used to describe economic viewpoints. The ideas that the federal government should spend or save money respectively. How an economic policy could correlate with theistic views is beyond me...however...there is a correlation between party membership and religious preference. Generally, republicans tend to be more along Protestant faiths, while a large population of Catholics and Jehova's Witnesses also identify themselves as such. Democrats tend to represent an even mix of all faiths, surprisingly, with a Christian and a Jew for every Atheist you run across. Libertarians are almost exclusively protestant. You could say I'm an odd man out.

Thing is, I'm not a big fan of conservative economic policies. That being said, libertarian economics do seem to be a bit different. I saw a piece Penn Jillette did where he explained libertarianism and his economic philosophy here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2D2JE-Ae...ure=g-vrec

I agree with most of what he said. I think the big flaw is when he said he believes people are generally good, moral people. There are two important problems with that.

First, companies aren't good, moral people. Companies are subject to natural selection and evolution wherein the companies who have policies and abilities that are best for the environment they are in are able to survive at the expense of companies that aren't suited to the environment. If we have a system that allows and even rewards corruption, the companies that are corrupt survive and thrive. Honest companies crash and burn. We need to create an environment where corrupt companies are held accountable if we want to see change and we aren't doing that; the public knows about the horrible working conditions in Apple factories in China, but we're still going nuts over the iPhone5 (even though it's only slightly better than the iPhone4).

Second, while people are generally good, there are some out there who aren't and they can be very powerful people. The traits that make people successful in business are a concern for money and image, single minded concern for success at any cost, lack of empathy, things like that. Sure, you want to maintain a good image and you have public relation firms for that, but the companies aren't going to spend more on pr than they can expect to get in profit from the good pr.

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And the people lower on the economic bracket feel the opposite happening: they know that no matter how hard they work, they won't be able to get ahead.

TaraJo, I don't know what your economic/financial situation is, but don't buy into this idea. Lots of people get ahead by working hard and dramatically change their economic situation. I did it and you can too. America is the best place in the world to do it, don't believe the naysayers. Work hard, show your boss that you can be counted on to look after his/herinterests, and you'll be rewarded.

Rewarded, yes, but it's still frustrating when I can work my ass off and eek out a middle class life while rich kids never have to lift a finger and they're living on easy street. My dad has the best work ethic of anyone I've ever met; he was always excited when his boss made him work overtime and he was volunteering for more constantly. If pay were proportional to your effort, he would easily be a millionaire but, instead, he never got better than middle-class or, maybe, upper middle-class.

[CapnAwesome]

Rewarded, yes, but it's still frustrating when I can work my ass off and eek out a middle class life while rich kids never have to lift a finger and they're living on easy street. My dad has the best work ethic of anyone I've ever met; he was always excited when his boss made him work overtime and he was volunteering for more constantly. If pay were proportional to your effort, he would easily be a millionaire but, instead, he never got better than middle-class or, maybe, upper middle-class.

Who cares, money doesn't make you happy anyway. Those rich kids who's lives are so easy aren't any happier, in fact some evidence suggest they are significantly less happy, than their middle class counterparts. Besides, anybody who bitches about poverty in the United States needs to travel to other parts of the world. Then you realize that the poor in this country are not really poor after all.

The odd thing about left-wing politics, although it tends to attract hippy types, is that it doesn't really preach anything of the sort. People think the Republican party is the greedy one, but the Democrats are really the party of envy and greed, wanting what your neighbor has. Fuck that. Let rich people stew in their wealth and unhappiness. I never have needed it, and never will. If someone offered to give me a million dollars, I'd give it all away to charity and not think twice.

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TaraJo, I don't know what your economic/financial situation is, but don't buy into this idea. Lots of people get ahead by working hard and dramatically change their economic situation. I did it and you can too. America is the best place in the world to do it, don't believe the naysayers. Work hard, show your boss that you can be counted on to look after his/herinterests, and you'll be rewarded.

I don't know what people mean by 'getting ahead.' Once you have a car and a place to stay, what more do you need? A bigger house full of wasted space? A more expensive car with shiny rims? It seems to me that past a certain point money becomes about increasing your status in society, rather than providing you with anything that you actually need, or will actually make you happy. I'd take the free-time over the extra money 10 days out of 10.

[A Theist]

Rewarded, yes, but it's still frustrating when I can work my ass off and eek out a middle class life while rich kids never have to lift a finger and they're living on easy street. My dad has the best work ethic of anyone I've ever met; he was always excited when his boss made him work overtime and he was volunteering for more constantly. If pay were proportional to your effort, he would easily be a millionaire but, instead, he never got better than middle-class or, maybe, upper middle-class.

Who cares, money doesn't make you happy anyway. Those rich kids who's lives are so easy aren't any happier, in fact some evidence suggest they are significantly less happy, than their middle class counterparts. Besides, anybody who bitches about poverty in the United States needs to travel to other parts of the world. Then you realize that the poor in this country are not really poor after all.

The odd thing about left-wing politics, although it tends to attract hippy types, is that it doesn't really preach anything of the sort. People think the Republican party is the greedy one, but the Democrats are really the party of envy and greed, wanting what your neighbor has. Fuck that. Let rich people stew in their wealth and unhappiness. I never have needed it, and never will. If someone offered to give me a million dollars, I'd give it all away to charity and not think twice.

---

TaraJo, I don't know what your economic/financial situation is, but don't buy into this idea. Lots of people get ahead by working hard and dramatically change their economic situation. I did it and you can too. America is the best place in the world to do it, don't believe the naysayers. Work hard, show your boss that you can be counted on to look after his/herinterests, and you'll be rewarded.

I don't know what people mean by 'getting ahead.' Once you have a car and a place to stay, what more do you need? A bigger house full of wasted space? A more expensive car with shiny rims? It seems to me that past a certain point money becomes about increasing your status in society, rather than providing you with anything that you actually need, or will actually make you happy. I'd take the free-time over the extra money 10 days out of 10.

I like this guy! Damned if CapnAwesome doesn't make sense!

[Tino]

Rewarded, yes, but it's still frustrating when I can work my ass off and eek out a middle class life while rich kids never have to lift a finger and they're living on easy street. My dad has the best work ethic of anyone I've ever met; he was always excited when his boss made him work overtime and he was volunteering for more constantly. If pay were proportional to your effort, he would easily be a millionaire but, instead, he never got better than middle-class or, maybe, upper middle-class.

Comparison is at the root of all unhappiness.

[Something completely different]

i voted conservative last election.
Merkel succesfully changed the cdu from a party of patriacal rich men to a modern diverse genderequal party.
since her being head of the cdu phrases like "christian values of our nation" have disapeared out of the cdu party vocabulary. the only bastion of right wing rethoric is catholic bavaria.
she succesfully managed our nation through the financial crisis, and her arguments were very convincing.
and personaly as a atheist, even though merkel is a protestan christian it gives me confort that she isnt just some law student, but actualy has a phd in physics and did scientific research while working at the uni Leipzig - wich is a very convincing factor since it shows that she bases her decisons on rational thought.

so much to lefti-lefti atheist.

[TaraJo]

Who cares, money doesn't make you happy anyway. Those rich kids who's lives are so easy aren't any happier, in fact some evidence suggest they are significantly less happy, than their middle class counterparts. Besides, anybody who bitches about poverty in the United States needs to travel to other parts of the world. Then you realize that the poor in this country are not really poor after all.

Well, no, once you get past the basic necessities, money doesn't really buy happiness. However, those basic necessities have been being threatened lately. Remember all those people being evicted from their homes when the housing bubble burst? Medical costs are headed in the same direction; I have a friend, Amy, whose family didn't make enough for medical insurance and her husband died because he had throat cancer that he couldn't get treated. Nobody is going to be very happy if they're sitting there on their death bed because they can't get throat cancer treated.

But there's another level to it. See, I want to see wealth tied to a persons productivity simply because I think we can accomplish more that way. Yeah, those rich kids are pretty well off and they're never going to have to lift a finger to keep on top. What if they didn't? What if they had to work hard and produce and put new ideas into the marketplace in order to maintain their privileged position? I want to see more production from the top levels of industry and new innovations from them and I think they can do it if they had the right incentive.

However, this conversation seems to be the key difference I notice between most Libertarians and Republicans. Libertarians preach the good of a free market while the Republicans try to keep pushing trickle down economics. I can respect the views of the Libertarians, even if I don't agree with them. Republican economic policy that relies on supply side economics has not worked. There's a very important difference between the two.

Personally, I'd like to institute more libertarian policies, but first we have to reduce the power and influence of corporations. I fear that if we simply reduce the size and scope of the government without doing that, corporations will become the defacto government and they'll be a fuck of a lot harder to control than our government is now.

[Darkstar]

See, I want to see wealth tied to a persons productivity simply because I think we can accomplish more that way. Yeah, those rich kids are pretty well off and they're never going to have to lift a finger to keep on top. What if they didn't? What if they had to work hard and produce and put new ideas into the marketplace in order to maintain their privileged position? I want to see more production from the top levels of industry and new innovations from them and I think they can do it if they had the right incentive.

Meritocracy, anyone?