Uni Health Care

[Dotard]

binny funny

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

@binny.

ME? I have prostate exams.

A question Binny:

I read that a great many [even middle class] Americans are something like three paydays from being on the street. Yet I would suppose that a goodly number of those same people would be of the same view as our Libertarian Tory.

Is it possible that so many people REALLY believe they are financially bullet proof? That they will NEVER find themselves say unable to afford (or get) health insurance? As far as I'm aware,at any given time over 40 MILLION Americans have no health insurance at all. As an outsider,I find that appalling* and inexcusable period. However, I think I understand a bit better after reading some of DLF's posts.I suspect her callous indifference towards her fellow citizens is quite common. Here and in the UK,that attitude is called "The Jack Principle". ("Fuck you Jack,I'm OK")

Cannot these smug objectors understand that solid social justice programmes (health,education and welfare) are actually in their best [long term] interest?

A few years ago,some one coined the term "culture of envy" to describe the Australian middle class.Their main concern seems to be that some one may get something they do not.Their life goal may be summed up in one word; "more". I'm neither surprised or shocked by DLF's general attitude,merely as contemptuous as I am of those I meet here just like her..



*I think my horror is in part due to the fact that the entire population of Australia is only 21 million.

[Rockthatpiano06]

I am not Binny but I would say that you are right- most people are just a few paychecks away from the street but yet have this 'never going to be me' mentality.


On another note, dont worry dryland fish you are in excellent company:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/20...alth_N.htm

[Eilonnwy]

XD

Wright agreed, saying, "America does offer the best health care in the world."

Yes, because being ranked #37 in the world = #1.

Actually France is ranked #1 and they use a hybrid system similar to the one the US is trying to get. '
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[binny]

@binny.

ME? I have prostate exams.

A question Binny:

I read that a great many [even middle class] Americans are something like three paydays from being on the street. Yet I would suppose that a goodly number of those same people would be of the same view as our Libertarian Tory.

Is it possible that so many people REALLY believe they are financially bullet proof? That they will NEVER find themselves say unable to afford (or get) health insurance? As far as I'm aware,at any given time over 40 MILLION Americans have no health insurance at all. As an outsider,I find that appalling* and inexcusable period. However, I think I understand a bit better after reading some of DLF's posts.I suspect her callous indifference towards her fellow citizens is quite common. Here and in the UK,that attitude is called "The Jack Principle". ("Fuck you Jack,I'm OK")

Cannot these smug objectors understand that solid social justice programmes (health,education and welfare) are actually in their best [long term] interest?

A few years ago,some one coined the term "culture of envy" to describe the Australian middle class.Their main concern seems to be that some one may get something they do not.Their life goal may be summed up in one word; "more". I'm neither surprised or shocked by DLF's general attitude,merely as contemptuous as I am of those I meet here just like her..



*I think my horror is in part due to the fact that the entire population of Australia is only 21 million.

Well I will try to answer your question. I do think most Americans are a few paychecks away from pushing a shopping cart and those are the ones who will cry loudest 'what happened? why me' when their world comes crumbling down around them. People here do think they are bullet proof. Most people I know live paycheck to paycheck, including myself. Our middle class is shrinking every day. If things don't change America will have the poor and the rich with nothing in between. I would like to think that dlf is in the minority thinking that things can keep going the way they are and 'f u' if you can't get an education and get a good job. I believe the majority of people that I know personally know that that attitude is unrealistic, especially in this economy. I'm hoping that the town hall nut jobs are only a handful of the population that actually thinks this way. I may be wrong, who knows. Unfortunately the smug objectors are uniformed and are listen to people from special interest groups and TV adds. They have little to know interest on getting the facts right, they just here what they want to here if it suits their agenda. They think it's their way or the highway. I heard a radio personality say that the baby boomers are going to ruin this country. They are a generation of post war spoiled brats used to getting what they want if they cry loud enough. That radio personality was Howard Stern. He was making a joke, but I think there may be a ring of truth to what he said. Culture of Envy does seem right. We call it 'keeping up with the Joneses'. We always have to one up someone else.

[Meatball]

Let's imagine for a moment that every American citizen has a High School education and some post-secondary. Do you think that will somehow enable businesses to pay them more and there will be no lower class?

There will always be a lower class. Why should we take care of them though? If they are able to do better and choose not to then how is it that anyone should spend money to keep them alive?

So first you acknowledge that regardless of what we do, there will always be a lower class in society. Then you revert back to your nonsense about them choosing to be poor. If everyone on earth was an accredited MD, someone would still have to greet people at Walmart, and Walmart would still have to pay them minimum wage. Is this hard to understand, or are you just an thoughtless asshole? Why should our government let them live in misery? Why not help them out when we obviously can?

And to address an implicit point being bounced around this thread: Government corporations can be efficient and effective. Besides healthcare, which I've gone over:

In Manitoba, we have public electricity/natural gas, car insurance, liquor stores,a wheat board, and a broadcasting company.

These services all work fine. Most of these have government established monopolies, and for the most part, they work flawlessly. In fact, MPI turned a profit last year, and I received a $78 rebate on my car insurance. I consider MPI to be a shining example of what a crown corporation should be.

[bozo]

I am not Binny but I would say that you are right- most people are just a few paychecks away from the street but yet have this 'never going to be me' mentality.


On another note, dont worry dryland fish you are in excellent company:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/20...alth_N.htm

Rock, spot-on about company for dlf! And isn't it amazing how reactionary, right-wing collectives adopt a title that is so unsuitable...in this case " FREEDOM " (federation )!

[dry land fish]

I can't believe anyone is even suggesting a government monopoly. The American government is not to be trusted and are already powerful enough. You see how they lie to Americans and spit on the rules put in place by the Geneva Conventions and the UN. They never do anything for the American people and only do things for themselves. Sometimes it seems like they help us but someone somewhere is getting some money for it and that is the whole reason they do it. We need the least amount of government intervention in our lives. We need them to keep the roads paved, keep the schools going but make sure that religious nuts don't go and brainwash our children there, to keep jails going and imprison the people who are a danger to society. We need the military to fight idiots who would like to threaten American lives or take our country away from us. Other than that we do NOT need the government. We can not allow them to get so large that they control every aspect of our lives. They can fix the problem without taking over the system.

Pharmaceutical companies are already in with our politicians. Does any American here ever wonder why Marijuana is not approved by the FDA and actually used properly in medicines? Ever wonder why these meds with serious side effects that are synthetic are put on the market while still in the trial stages? Doctors prescribe these and don't tell patients it's a trial drug. These things happen right now because the government has their hands in pharm sales. Get them to control healthcare and then who knows what kind of crap they will start pumping us full off. What if that government plan only pays for certain meds for a headache? What if those certain meds are meds put out by companies that a certain politician has some stock in or they have a deal worked out with the government for some other services? How can we be sure that it's going to be safe and fair? Oh because the government is supposed to keep us safe? Are you kidding me? My husband spent six years working in the Army for our government and he's now f*cked for life. They did not care and still do not care. They give him some money and consider him disabled and now try to pump him full of experimental drugs at the VA clinic and send him on his way. If he took the meds they wanted to give him he'd never be able to get out of bed. The only good thing that came out of it is that he has his entire college education paid for. This is what they will do to all of us. You will no longer be considered a customer at a doctors office but just a number. Just a body they have to shuffle in the door and kick out as quickly as possible. They will have no reason to be nice to you or give you great service for choosing their clinic as a place you would like to spend your money. They will look at you as a number and will be sent a a paycheck regardless so what would any Doctor care if you were satisfied with their service or not? If you don't ever come back to see them another body will fill your place.

---

I am not Binny but I would say that you are right- most people are just a few paychecks away from the street but yet have this 'never going to be me' mentality.


On another note, dont worry dryland fish you are in excellent company:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/20...alth_N.htm

Rock, spot-on about company for dlf! And isn't it amazing how reactionary, right-wing collectives adopt a title that is so unsuitable...in this case " FREEDOM " (federation )!

Just because someone is against this government ran healthcare does't make them right winged. I'm a Libertarian and I am NOT right wing. Just because I'm not far left doesn't mean I'm like those nut jobs. I'm not on here saying Obama is a Nazi. I voted for the man! I am all for paying for abortions with taxpayers money. Want to know why? Right now we pay for these dead beat moms to have all of their pre natal care, then we pay for the birth, and then a lot of the time we pay for the food stamps to feed those kids until they are eighteen. It would be far cheaper for the taxpayers if women could just get a free abortion. An abortion at a "free" clinic costs around 500.00. I know...I looked into it when I was single because I always said if I had gotten pregnant I was going to have one. I'd gladly pay for a woman who doesn't have enough money to raise a child on their own to have an abortion. That is the smart choice and I'd applaud anyone for having one.

I don't think I'm bulletproof but I know how to make money if I need it. I don't live paycheck to paycheck any longer. I used to when I was out of high school so I know what it's like. Maybe some people are lucky but I've never had a problem making money. Then again I remember being eight years old and trying to do whatever just to make a buck. I'd even loan money to my friends and charge interest.

[binny]

These things happen right now because the government has their hands in pharm sales.

You have it ass backwards. The US government does not control the pharmaceutical companies. The pharmaceutical and insurance companies and Wall Street control the government. It's NOT the government that is evil. It's big business. It corporations. That's what owns the US government, insurance, pharmaceutical and Wall Street. If you think the governement has that much control over people on it's own you are mistaken.
We need the government to take control of health care. You are so misinformed about the whole situation it isn't funny. You think your own personal experience is how the whole system works. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

[bozo]

A few extracts from day 1 of British journalist Chris McGreal's journey along Route 66 in America, recalling Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" in order to compare today's recession with the great depression of the 1930's:-

"....people work all the hours they aren't sleeping and still cannot afford to go to the doctor "

"...modern beasts.....vast multinationals discarding American workers in favour of cheaper labour in Mexico and health insurance companies that cut off medical lifelines to the gravely ill "

" Tulsa's Friendship Baptist Church......offered free consultation and medicines to those whom Oklahoma's hospitals don't want to see because they can't pay. In the bible belt, religious organisations step into the breach: charity care comes with god thrown in. "

" free clinics see a lot of children, a lot of elderly, a lot of single mothers and a lot of the working poor in need "

" the patients are encouraged to pray while awaiting treatment. The staff introduce god as part of what the organisation describes as holistic care."

" Hospitals have an interest in promoting charity as an alternative to President Obama's plans for getting healthcare to the uninsured. "

" Even with the spiritual help they may die, but for those of us who are christians and believe in god intervening directly in people's lives, we've seen many answers to prayer where medicine falls short. "

A few observations from my socialist viewpoint:-

Heartless capitalism, that in America means you must not fall ill if you are poor.
The " modern beast " global capitalism which has no allegiance save global pursuit of profit, to the advantage of the few.

Capitalism that forces the most vulnerable into reliance on " charity " because the state has closed the door in their faces. And who typically opens the door?....the church, which offers relief providing god is worshipped as payment for the aid offered.

Capitalism and religion...both rotten to the core.