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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Abstract infinities appear in abundance, however the only 'real' infinity is the space-time void in which there could be an infinite number of universes.
The problem with infinity is that there is no beginning or end and this also presents issues with an infinite god. How could this god control itself let alone an infinite void or an infinite number of universes? As soon as finite limitations are put on this god, how can it any longer be a god? No matter how powerful a god, it can never get to the end of an infinity.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 5:03 pm
But whether infinite or finite, why is God typically defined as non-natural?
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:03 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2012 at 6:04 pm by Kirbmarc.)
Quote:why is God typically defined as non-natural?
Because in most religions (including all of the Abrahamic ones: Christianity, Judaism and Islam) god is an intelligent, personal being, since he created humans "in his image".
A natural, intelligent, personal being is simply a man, or a human-like (psychologically speaking) alien, maybe with a few superpowers on the side. It's only quantitatively different (i.e. more powerful or with a longer lifespan) from us.
Christian, Jews and Muslims (and probably a few more believers that I don't know about) believe that they their god is qualitatively different from human, and therefore non-natural, or supernatural, not part of the natural world.
"Nature" considered as a whole is usually not considered personal or intelligent, unless you believe that the universe is a infinite intelligent being and we are merely a few cells in his brain. But that's pantheism for you, kids.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2012 at 6:14 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Kirbmarc Wrote:Because in most religions (including all of the Abrahamic ones: Christianity, Judaism and Islam) god is an intelligent, personal being, since he created humans "in his image".
Why does that make him non-natural?
Quote:A natural, intelligent, personal being is simply a man, or a human-like (psychologically speaking) alien, maybe with a few superpowers on the side.
Why does that have to apply for him to be natural? Once again, nature undetectable by science isn't the same as an absence of nature.
How does this:
Quote:Christian, Jews and Muslims (and probably a few more believers that I don't know about) believe that they their god is qualitatively different from humans
Imply this:
Quote:and therefore non-natural, or supernatural, not part of the natural world.
?
Quote:"Nature" considered as a whole is usually not considered personal or intelligent, unless you believe that the universe is a infinite intelligent being and we are merely a few cells in his brain. But that's pantheism for you, kids.
Why cannot the universe have naturally been there from the beginning in the form of God, and then his natural self naturally create more nature? He may be undetectable nature but, once again, that doesn't mean he's not nature.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Quote:nature undetectable by science isn't the same as an absence of nature
You're right, but I think that most believers of the Abrahamic religions also think that nature is defined as "what is detectable by science".
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:23 pm
And what I'm questioning is: "Why?" Is that in the bible?
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Quote:Is that in the bible?
I don't think so, at least not explicitly. But it is a common assumption. You also have to define what do you mean by "natural", because I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "natural, but undetectable (and not merely undetect so far) by science".
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:33 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2012 at 6:33 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
I just mean part of nature and I don't see why anything has to be separate from nature, since existence is natural.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:38 pm
(October 28, 2012 at 6:32 pm)Kirbmarc Wrote: I don't think so, at least not explicitly. But it is a common assumption.
Christians make a lot of assumptions with regard to the bible. Like that assumption that god is loving, when it is so contrary to his actions. But, it really does fall on what you describe as 'supernatural'. I guess anything that is like 'magic' would be defined as supernatural, but as with all of those things, once scince understands them then they would be seen as natural, even though they were natural all along. Perhaps 'supernatural' is that which cannot be understood by science, such as god suspending the laws of nature. But again, we might one day understand that. One could say that something that breaks the laws of nature is supernatural, but perhaps we would instead be obliged to write exceptions into the laws to accompany the oddities. In conclusion...there is no conclusion...
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Quote:I just mean part of nature and I don't see why anything has to be separate from nature, since existence is natural.
Then according to your definition, if god exists it must be natural. But I'm still a bit confused by what you mean when you say "nature". Does "nature" mean "eveything that exists" to you? If so, then "existence is natural" is a tautology.
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