Men and Women Can't Be "Just Friends"

[Rev. Rye]

I wonder what would be the metrics of this if we threw at least one gay party into the mix; I am on close terms with one of my former female teachers, and she's a lesbian.

[TaraJo]

Its as though we know what he is thinking

That's what they get for dressing her in those skin tight outfits. It's also a damn good thing Seven of Nine wasn't telepathic or she would have killed half the men on Voyager.

Anyway, as for the original story, while I find it interesting, I wonder how it plays out with gay people. I mean, there are fag hags out there: straight girls who seem to be most comfortable and hang out with gay guys. There are also some butch girls who, as far as most people are concerned, are 'just one of the guys;' I had an ex like this who liked to go out and play airsoft with a bunch of guys and everybody accepted her and everything, but I think they all totally understood that they had no chance of getting with her.

Trans people I think throw a whole new level of complication in there. If you're trans and you befriend someone before you transition, what happens with your gender roles and sexualiy after transition? Does it cause that shift in the relationship between the two of you?

[Autumnlicious]

That's what they get for dressing her in those skin tight outfits. It's also a damn good thing Seven of Nine wasn't telepathic or she would have killed half the men on Voyager.

How can you use Voyager as an example and not know Seven's character?

If anything, she'd express both distaste at the humanoid obsession over procreation and the lack of focus on getting anything productive done ("It is inefficient").

[Violet]

You know... I don't interact with straight men much these days. That's weird... I really wonder what's happened to them all

Maybe my gay shows too strongly. But then I have few strictly straight women as friends: what could it mean?!

[DeistPaladin]

The word "friend" means different things to each gender. For women, the word means "no sex". For men, the word means "no commitment".

This lesson was underscored for me during my youth. I was a lot less experienced in the pitfalls of relationship navigation. This woman I was dating had a "friendship first" rule that she apparently followed. Now I understood this meant no physical intimacy but it also meant, in her mind, that I wasn't freed of any commitment to her.

If I had to do that courtship over again, I'd have sat down with her and hashed out exactly what the rules are and helped her set realistic expectations or cut and run early and save myself the trouble. Anytime your perspective partner has strange rules, you definitely need to nail down what those rules are because they'll make assumptions that you somehow just know. It would have saved me a lot of drama later.

I later learned that part of her un-communicated expectations was that I was supposed to enter a monastery and stay there for some unspecified period of time while she decides whether or not to get around to upgrading me to boyfriend status. Meanwhile, I assumed I was at liberty to pursue other options and did so without a second thought. After all, we had no relationship. We were "just friends" (male-speak for "no commitment").

After about six months of dating as "just friends", I attended a party she threw. There I met a friend of hers that I really liked. We talked for a bit and I got her phone number. Miss Firends-First had this strange "cookie-cutter smile" like she was trying to be nice and maintain decorum at her party for the rest of the evening. She later blew up at me over the phone and ended our courtship. I was surprised by all this, "WTF, I'm not even ONE timing you!" She had a different understanding of what the rules were, I learned. Not sure what happened between her and her friend. Her friend never returned my calls.

Women and men seem to have different reactions hearing this story. Men shake their heads and laugh about this and wonder what's her problem. Women seem a bit more sympathetic to her. One woman asked me if I couldn't have been more discreet when I hit on her friend. Why? I wasn't doing anything wrong and I don't do that anyway. I've never cheated on any partner, male or female. This wasn't cheating because we had no relationship.

The lesson I took away was always be aware of what the other person's expectations are, especially in courtship where the rules aren't always communicated clearly. This is especially true if your prospect has strange rules. As unromantic as it may be, the thing to do in that situation would have been to sit down with her and nail down what exactly the rules are.

[The Grand Nudger]

You know... I don't interact with straight men much these days. That's weird... I really wonder what's happened to them all

Maybe my gay shows too strongly. But then I have few strictly straight women as friends: what could it mean?!

Oh man, when did I lose my hetero card Lilly?
(lol, are you cheating on me with some other friend those few hours of the day we aren't tied at the digital hip? That's grounds for boiled bunny reprisal you know...)

[festive1]

I think a lot of straight men are (not sure of the right word, but here's a few options) intimidated/freaked out/perhaps a little afraid of the trans community. I used to work at a high end shoe store in DC's DuPont area (think little San Francisco of DC), and I was the designated trans salesperson. Seriously, I'd be eating or on break and one of the guys would come in the back and tell me that there was a transexual looking for women's shoes and ask me to go help them.
I was actually quite good at finding large women's shoes (especially heels) to meet their needs. I had several great clients who I'd call up and let them know when we got new stuff in that might work for them. I'd do special orders for larger sizes that we typically didn't carry. And I teased my co-workers mercilessly about this kind of phobia they had. In my view, people are people, and most have feet and need shoes. Who the hell am I to judge which styles they want to wear?
We also got some straight-edge looking businessman types looking for women's heels. That was always interesting. Perhaps my favorite client was a MtoF Asian transexual, who was absolutely stunning. She'd come in with her boyfriend, dressed to the nines. She was very soft spoken and sweet. I was more than happy to help her find comfy, sexy shoes :-)
But I'll never forget how the straight guys reacted, it was very sad.

[The Grand Nudger]

You'd think there would be a alot of common ground between straight men and MtoF trans. Both are enamored with the female body, at the very least...lol.

[festive1]

You'd think there would be a alot of common ground between straight men and MtoF trans. Both are enamored with the female body, at the very least...lol.

I think it has to do with their confusion of being attracted to transexuals, but not liking the fact that they are attracted to someone who was born with male parts. I think the whole thing is just fucked up. We are attracted to who we are attracted to, we love who we love, what should it matter what someone was born as? It's the person that matters, not the exterior.

[TaraJo]

You know... I don't interact with straight men much these days. That's weird... I really wonder what's happened to them all

Maybe my gay shows too strongly. But then I have few strictly straight women as friends: what could it mean?!

+1. Sort of. I couldn't seem to befriend much of anyone 'before,' so it's a little hard to tell.