WTF Atheists!?

[Edwardo Piet]

Is the OP talking about the so called "new atheism movement"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

[KichigaiNeko]

Perhaps not so much as the Netherlands but here in the West it is VERY flat!!

It is beautiful in as much as it will kill you as soon as look at you. Just something we grow up with and after 5 decades I'm over it. Stunning scenery for all that.

And I have no idea what it is like to live in the Netherlands. Would love to visit one day though.

West as in WA west Kichi? Or as in Hay NSW type west? Pretty flat out there, too. From memory the land out there raises something like a metre every 10km or so...

West as in WA - Perth. IF you want topography you have to go to Margaret River and then on to Augusta and Albany

[Utracia]

Daniel Dennett a hipster?

[Edwardo Piet]

In my opinion, the so-called "new atheism movement" has not popularized atheism, but it has popularized the labelling yourself as an atheist, now there are just more atheists that call themselves atheists.

However, there are still, nevertheless, many many atheists who don't label themselves as such: many people still don't believe in any gods whatsoever and yet they don't call themselves atheists and even if you asked some of them if they were atheists they would say "no" simply because they don't like the word.

In fact I'd say that the vast majority of atheists still don't label themselves as such.

[thesummerqueen]

So in other words, coming out is more popular.

[Fryslân]

Hey, you can state your opinion - just expect to have it ripped to shreds. We all run that risk. I've run that gauntlet myself a couple times.

I don't see at as ripping my oppinion to shreds. Because my oppinion hasn't changed. Your oppinion is just not the same. That's fine, since we live in completly differnt envoirements.

Your world probably needs more people like the ones pissing me of. Although you'll see that when it comes out the way it did here, you will not like it so much. You will not like Atheist that can't substantiate their opinion and just talk, rage, dis and rip on other peoples riligious fews because it's cool. You seem to enjoy it more than others. That's the thing I was objecting about. But you and some others were right, people like you will always be around so i'll deal with it. But still doen't mean I have to agree with it.

The tilte of this thread "WTF Atheist" was named like this for two reasons. One because I was realy supprised about what i've found. And two, because it would most likely atract that sort of attitude. So yeah, it was risky. Atleast I got what I came for

---

Welcome to the REAL world Fryslân.

Define REAL world. It's a meaningless remark.

[thesummerqueen]

Perhaps the idiom is not translating - I meant merely that your opinion would be looked at from many different angles and other opinions; not that it would necessarily change anything.

And no, I can't agree because I don't think I have ever witnessed an atheist dissing someone's religious views because it's 'cool' to hate other people. Maybe I'm not versed enough in the internet, but I hear all the time that there are "haters" out there who "hate on" certain things because it's cool to be that way - it's never been anything to do with atheism and always to do with music or fashion, and seemed to be an accusation members of the in-group leveled at the out-group for disagreeing with them. For instance, I could call Cinjin a hipster/hater for disliking AC/DC, because that's my favorite band. In reality, Cinjin and I just have differences in opinion about music, and I don't call him anything of the sort because I'm mature enough to understand that and know that Cinjin is a good guy.

So what would happen here? That atheists would "hate on" religious people for something that shallow? I truly have never witnessed people being THAT immature, and I've seen some pretty retarded arguments bandied back and forth. The fact is, not everyone comes to atheism from a position of logic or rationality, so there's no reason to expect that they would be logical or rational people. However, a good majority of them would probably agree that religions is stupid and say so - whether it's raging or just talking. There's a time and place for both, if you ask me. And maybe people exist who do it to try and look clever...but I have never seen them, and thus I challenged you saying you were tired of it. Perhaps this only goes on in Europe.

It saddens me that you seem to be writing me off as one of those atheists that "rips" on other people's opinion because I think it's cool to do so. I promise you, with all honesty (whether you believe me or not is up to you) that I rip people up only when I think they are wrong or saying something indefensibly stupid. I don't care whether or not you or anyone else finds my responses clever or insightful. I gave you my reasons why people who exist to disprove things - gently or otherwise - should be allowed to do their thing. If you still find this unacceptable, than that's up to you. Would you say the same about irreligious things like homeopathy? Do you just object to us being wet blankets because it hurts people's feelings? I'm rather curious now. Is it tone? The fact that we say something is stupid at all? Should we all just hold in our opinions so that we don't bother the religious? What about the religious? I can't believe they are so peaceful there that they hold their own opinions in. Here in America, the word "Jesus" could practically be used as a comma, it's so prevalent in the speech of certain areas. What then?

[Fryslân]

And I thank you for chosing my words wisly for my next thread. Please do keep in mind (and no this should not be the main exuse) I am not English and am not 100% in my comfort zone when I type in English or when I have to deffend my oppinion.

I don't expect you to agree either. How can you if you do not know what i'm on about. You're not "old" because you don't know what i'm on about. I'm a youthworker believe it or not and see a lot of things like the one i raged about. Kids/teens/young adults do EVERYTHING on the internet and are obsessed by what is in/hip to do and very sensitive to what they see and what others do. I think if you check your own thread you'll see that these "scene kids" "hipsters" and other people like these are quite young.

Just because you have never seen immature Atheist (wich I had never eather) doesn't mean it doesn't happen in a scale wich is growing. Hense the post!

I'm not writing you off as someone who rips on peoples oppinions. Just someone who rips on mine and soesnt even know what i'm on about. Or when "they are wrong or saying something indefensibly stupid." < your words. How can you find my post stupid, wich was obveous by the way, when you don't even know what i'm on about. I'be seen your other post asking about what i'm on about. Why not come to me? If you would of approuched me a little different I woud of.

I do think the way you and others say things could work better for both parties if they didn't have the need to be heard so much. The whole world is loud. People need to listen more and will listen more if you calm down. How is it abnormal to think this?

It's not about hurt feelings. That's subjective. Like insults. Others are more sensitive than others. But thats not what it's about. I just don't care for loud people. It seems to work better if you are in the western world though.
I don't think you should'nt say anything about how you feel or what ever. I think it's good, it's just the manner in how it goes. What the fuck is wrong if a a civilized conversation these days, without it turning itno a heavy discussion and people shouting and no one listening. Especially when people think it's cool to be like this, like they don't give a fuck. Whilst they really do. Everybody does. People are social animals, tehy need to be socially accepted. But it's going to far in a lot of things. First they rant and shout, then they think it's weird that no one likes em and then they come back all like: " oh i'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that". Fuck that, it wouldnt of happend in the first place you they would have calmed the fuck down.
Further, I can't speak for America, because I only hear and see what mainstream media wants me to see. Like Fox news, or the daily show, or my favourite The colbert report. I have been to New York, wich isn't really America because it's so international. But I would love to see Texas or another place to experience it for real. Learn to read and write with Jesus

Hope I answered some of you questions.

[thesummerqueen]

And I thank you for chosing my words wisly for my next thread. Please do keep in mind (and no this should not be the main exuse) I am not English and am not 100% in my comfort zone when I type in English or when I have to deffend my oppinion.

This is why I keep coming back to clarify - I am keeping that in mind. I spend most of my online time talking to people from all over the world with varying degrees of control on their English, actually. Most of them are European.

I don't expect you to agree either. How can you if you do not know what i'm on about. You're not "old" because you don't know what i'm on about. I'm a youthworker believe it or not and see a lot of things like the one i raged about. Kids/teens/young adults do EVERYTHING on the internet and are obsessed by what is in/hip to do and very sensitive to what they see and what others do. I think if you check your own thread you'll see that these "scene kids" "hipsters" and other people like these are quite young.

First - I made that thread halfway in lightheartedness and halfway in curiosity. It might help communication if I tell you that most of my tone when I'm interacting on this forum is meant to be a bit sarcastic, a bit sassy, and usually full of amusement. Very rarely is there malice, and I generally save that for the most asinine members. I joked about being "old" - partially to poke fun at the real old farts, who were left in peace for too long while I took a break from the forum.

Something that has always interested me since the time I was the age of these "scene" kids is the way people label themselves. When I was in school, I didn't belong to a particular group. I had no "label," except perhaps "nerd," and in one of those stupid moments when kids were going around pointing at others in the class and saying their label out loud, they didn't have one when they got to me. I was interested in so many different things, I couldn't see myself settling on one style or genre of music. Now I'm curious as to how people define the differences, because these "scenes" seem so fluid and similar, it's hard to tell why they would label themselves one way or another. It's rather like my fascination with how the atheists will call themselves various names - either to make themselves sound better or to try and express a different value system.

I agree with what you say about kids, but it doesn't necessarily lead to the actions you were speaking of. Hence me asking for examples.

Just because you have never seen immature Atheist (wich I had never eather) doesn't mean it doesn't happen in a scale wich is growing. Hense the post!

Well, now, hold on - I've seen plenty of immature atheists. Maturity has nothing to do with atheism. What I said was I had never seen an atheist attack another's religious beliefs simply because it was "cool". Even kids are capable of knowing that this stuff is bullshit. I've never even seen a theist attack an atheist or a person of a different religion because it was "cool" to do - it was always because they had been indoctrinated into thinking that it was "wrong" or that the other person was somehow "evil" and must be preached to. This isn't like kids encouraging each other to smoke. It's making me laugh just imagining someone saying "C'mon, all the cool kids are atheist." Really?

I'm not writing you off as someone who rips on peoples oppinions. Just someone who rips on mine and soesnt even know what i'm on about. Or when "they are wrong or saying something indefensibly stupid." < your words. How can you find my post stupid, wich was obveous by the way, when you don't even know what i'm on about. I'be seen your other post asking about what i'm on about. Why not come to me? If you would of approuched me a little different I woud of.

Hey, I'm still here waiting for clarification. I didn't say I wasn't going to pick it apart, but you're welcome to keep helping me understand. I read your post and thought I knew what you were on about. If I don't understand still, please help me to figure it out. I have all the internet time in the world.

Second, I didn't come to you about the "scenepoints" stuff because it was a much more generalized question about that whole lifestyle/phenomenon in general and wasn't an attack towards you or meant to clutter up YOUR thread. You might have taken me making such a thread personally as some kind of light insult, but actually I was trying to respect you by asking my related, but not on-topic, questions in another space so we could continue this conversation here. You are welcome to tell me what you know about hipsters, scene kids and emo things over there. But as none of those things have anything in particular to do with atheism, I left them somewhere else.

I do think the way you and others say things could work better for both parties if they didn't have the need to be heard so much. The whole world is loud. People need to listen more and will listen more if you calm down. How is it abnormal to think this?

It isn't abnormal. I actually like Phil Plait's "Don't Be a Dick" speech, with one caveat: sometimes a dick is what's needed. If you need more reasons other than what I gave you some posts ago, I can list them. Sometimes you need someone to cry out and rail and rage. The problem then is not how loud they are, but whether or not the point they're making is valid and informative. You must see that there are shades of gray in this.


The reason most people start up in arms is because they feel they are being attacked. In the case of most atheists, I would expect that many of them are instinctively reacting to the fact that they have been preached too all their lives and they are tired of hearing the same old shit over and over and over again. At least here in America. I understand it's different in Europe. But you can't deny that you started this post with strong language as well, so why did you expect any different in kind?

[Fryslân]

Thanks for your nice reply.
I will have to check Phil out.

First of all, I did not expect a different reaction. It was in fact what I wanted. I'm not saying I deliberately posted it being a "troll" but I did over do it more than I usually would. In real life i'm not like this at all.
This thread was a good exaple. Someone shouts, and randoms shout back. I've learnt a lot from everyone who posted.
The only thing I would of wanted to to better was my not so high standard English.
I've said this to someone else too that thought me being Dutch had nothing to do with how hard it can be on this forum to read English. I do not think the English on this forum is easy to follow at all and i'm not the best at it.
If they think they can do it better, try and post a discussion topic in Dutch and see how they handle that.

Anyway, thanks once more.