Hell, or rather my brief experience of it.

[Drich]

I didn't mean to mess up your 'game.'

[Whateverist]

You're right. If I want to keep my good standing as an a-asshole I'll have to try harder than that. If you want to delete your post too so no one has to see the unkind things I said, go ahead. I was reaching out to apophenia but I stepped all over you to do it.

[Darkstar]

when and where?

If I ever actually find that, I'll get back to you. There is only so much time in a day.

So I ask, how much more insincere can one get that going to church to get someone to a girl to like them?

I went for a girl without a doubt. But I did not stay because of the girl. The time spent chasing a girl was a waist of time. I did not learn nor did i experience anything.

Exactly.

---

---

You were clearly not A/S/King, but you still had a 'revelation' in the form of a bad dream.

Not while I was chasing tail, no. My 'revelation came after she started dating someone else. I felt like I was tricked into going to church and for a time I lashed back at God. I looked for him A/S/K just to spit in His eye. Maybe that is why I got to look Him in the eye. Kind of a chrushing moment that was...

---

Are you sure? If you went to church for a girl, and you claim to have been an atheist, then why were you looking for god to spit in his eye when you didn't even believe he existed? And in case you say you were sincere:

At the time I was an Atheist.

---

---

You then go on to say that just because something is natural and perfectly explainable scientifically doesn't mean an undetectable omnipotent being with infinite knowledge of the universe couldn't have telepathically sent it to you as a sign.

when and where?

---

Just because 'we' can put a name or dianosis something, doesn't mean that God has been prevented from using it. That is unless you can come up with some conclusive proof as to why I experienced one single instance of Sleep paralysis.

---

That is the problem here. You think you have a complete story and you haven't even scratched the surface. every event, happening, circumstance.. All of it is made clear in the details. I put out the high points of this story waiting for one of you to ask a question that would allow me to go deeper into this story, but all I have gotten back is more crap like what you just posted.

Projecting, much?

You challenge what you do not understand or what is not familiar to you, because why is this guy/me special? Why haven't I/you experienced anything remotely close to what he/me has seen?

I think it has been made clear that other people have had similar experiences. And not about god, about many things. Maybe some people have even had experiences like this about other gods (in fact, someone almost certainy has) but you instead choose to ignore this and just assume you are right without seriously considering what other people have to say.

I can tell you why and I can show you how to be given another chance to commune with God... I am apart of the A/S/K process, and all the loudest of you can do is try and change the subject or default to the same old arguements. Why not just ASK a question rather than assume you know the answer.

And when god won't answer...

Nazi propaganda? You mean like this:

Well, of course not. But you must remember, the Nazis were anti-semantic, but not anti-religious in general.

Actually, no.

Actually, yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in...ristianity

Many Nazis promoted positive Christianity, a militant, non-denominational form of Christianity which viewed Christ as an active fighter and anti-semite who opposed the institutionalized Judaism of his day.[35] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy within Germany persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.[36]

The Nazi leadership made use of both Christian symbolism, indigenous Germanic pagan imagery, and ancient Roman symbolism in their propaganda. However, the use of pagan symbolism worried some Protestants.[37] Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler,[38] subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly Social Darwinism,[39] or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.[citation needed] Central to both groupings was the belief in Germanic (white Northern-European) racial superiority. The existence of a Ministry of Church Affairs, instituted in 1935 and headed by Hanns Kerrl, was hardly recognized by ideologists such as Alfred Rosenberg or by other political decision-makers.[citation needed]

(bolding added)

As now you have been made aware the Nazi party did not have any affiliation with the Church what so ever, so they wouldn't have ever fought for it.

Well, you're half right. The nazis were'nt necessarily affiliated with a particular church, but they did use Christianity inspired anti-semitism as justification for the holocaust.

You picture is just a poor photoshoped example of an atheist doing whatever it takes to try and win an argument.

Photoshopped!?! uh yeah those words weren't floating in front of Hitler when that picture was taken, sure, I'll give you that...

Ironically the fool who originally created this image (and everyone who has used it for it's intended purpose since) has had to sell their souls to the very same process men like Hitler and Gerbils did for the very same reason. To try and win hearts and minds by twisting the facts to suit their/your agenda. You like cinny, had proved you are cut from the same cloth these men were. Congrats on establishing yourself as a 'do what ever it takes' kinda man.

So now Cinjin and I are both nazis, nice. Which one of us is resorting to dishonerable tactics again?

[Drich]

I went for a girl without a doubt. But I did not stay because of the girl. The time spent chasing a girl was a waist of time. I did not learn nor did I experience anything.

Exactly.

I spent a year chasing her around, and nothing did happen in my spiritual life, even though I went through the motions. It wasn't till it all fell apart that I began to ask why.. Why if their was a God was I being 'punished' for doing what He (or rather What I thought) wanted me to do? I concluded their wasn't a God, but was in constant contact with people and stories that told me otherwise. I was told if I wanted to know then simply take God up on the promise He made. Not the 'deal' I made with God myself. I was Mad enough to take God up on His offer.. I may have spent a year chasing after some girl, that nothing ever came out of it, But I did find God putting fourth 1/2 the effort.

Are you sure?

Yuup.

If you went to church for a girl, and you claim to have been an atheist, then why were you looking for god to spit in his eye when you didn't even believe he existed?

I never said I was militant. If you were to ask me then if God existed, I would have defaulted to the argument most of you do.
"Look at all of the suffering in the world, look at all I have done look at all that God owes us, Look at what god owes me.." Because I could not understand how an all powerful God could be so deficient, I concluded their was no God.

That does not mean I did not want to know if their was a God or not. You all claim to follow the evidence and to be faithful to the facts, when in fact you are not. You are faithful to one interpretation of evidence and facts that MUST Always prove that God does not exist. This is not Atheism. This is known as Misotheism. True Atheist are neutral. Neutral means one can be influenced one way or another. You or rather your definition of Atheism says that Atheists are against the Idea of God. That again is Misotheism not Atheism.

I think it has been made clear that other people have had similar experiences. And not about god, about many things. Maybe some people have even had experiences like this about other gods (in fact, someone almost certainly has) but you instead choose to ignore this and just assume you are right without seriously considering what other people have to say.

What you guys Never seem to get is that No other god even claims to interact with it's people directly. Those gods always use prophets or emissaries to interact with the common folk. Any good will coming from their god is a result of a good karma deal they have with him and his religion.

And when god won't answer...

God always answers, 'we' just do not know what to listen for.

Actually, yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in...ristianity
[=wikipedia]

Ah, no again.
I gave you a link to an actual translated memo of an Actual Nazi decree effectively declaring the Nazi party/Hitler as God and you fire back with a wiki article saying that the Germans Pre 1941 went to church? Again no. If you look at the two links provided you will note the first saying what your wiki article said. Then July 1 1941 Hitler became a god. The memo I left a link to was declare that all Propagandist speakers and Party leaders submit to Hitter's world view and that all other 'commitments' be cast aside. Why? Because in September 1941 "Phase 3" began. extermination of the Jews.
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/camps.htm

Many Nazis promoted positive Christianity, a militant, non-denominational form of Christianity which viewed Christ as an active fighter and anti-Semite who opposed the institutionalized Judaism of his day.[35] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy within Germany persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.[36]

The Nazi leadership made use of both Christian symbolism, indigenous Germanic pagan imagery, and ancient Roman symbolism in their propaganda. However, the use of pagan symbolism worried some Protestants.[37] Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler,[38] subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly Social Darwinism,[39] or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.[citation needed] Central to both groupings was the belief in Germanic (white Northern-European) racial superiority. The existence of a Ministry of Church Affairs, instituted in 1935 and headed by Hanns Kerrl, was hardly recognized by ideologists such as Alfred Rosenberg or by other political decision-makers.[citation needed]

(bolding added)[/quote]The Nazis allowed religion for a time because they knew people would fight for their beliefs when directly opposed, but if they over time slowly eroded away their belief system, with propaganda and victories Hitler would become a god to his own people.

Well, you're half right. The Nazis weren't necessarily affiliated with a particular church, but they did use Christianity inspired anti-Semitism as justification for the holocaust.

Your understanding of history is appalling. I have little more than a history channel understanding of this time period and I know what fueled the hate for the Jews was the sanctions the German people under went after WWI. The Jews controlled much of the Money in Europe and it was a combination of Jewish prosperity combined with German hurt German pride that rallied this nation back into another World War.

So now Cinjin and I are both Nazis, nice. Which one of us is resorting to dishonorable tactics again?

See what hurt pride does? It skews your view. I did not call you nor Cinjin a Nazi. I said you are using the same tactics Nazis used. What is wrong with you people? You are like the 3rd person to make that jump.

[Undeceived]

The relationship between Hitler and Christianity for anyone interested: http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hi...t/id2.html

[Darkstar]

---

I went for a girl without a doubt. But I did not stay because of the girl. The time spent chasing a girl was a waist of time. I did not learn nor did i experience anything.

[hide]

Exactly.

I spent a year chasing her around, and nothing did happen in my spiritual life, even though i went through the motions. It wasn't till it all fell apart that I began to ask why.. Why if their was a God was I being 'punished' for doing what He (or rather What i thought) wanted me to do? I concluded their wasn't a God, but was in constant contact with people and stories that told me otherwise. I was told if I wanted to know then simply take God up on the promise He made. Not the 'deal' I made with God myself. I was Mad enough to take God up on His offer.. I may have spent a year chasing after some girl, that nothing ever came out of it, But I did find God putting fourth 1/2 the effort.

Are you sure?

Yuup.

If you went to church for a girl, and you claim to have been an atheist, then why were you looking for god to spit in his eye when you didn't even believe he existed?

I never said I was militant. If you were to ask me then if God existed, I would have defaulted to the arguement most of you do.
"Look at all of the suffering in the world, look at all I have done look at all that God owes us, Look at what god owes me.." Because I could not understand how an all powerful God could be so defecient, I concluded their was no God.

That does not mean I did not want to know if their was a God or not. You all claim to follow the evidence and to be faithful to the facts, when in fact you are not. You are faithful to one interpertation of evidence and facts that MUST Always prove that God does not exist. This is not Atheism. This is known as Misotheism. True Atheist are netural. Netural means one can be influenced one way or another. You or rather your defination of Atheism says that Atheists are against the Idea of God. That again is Misotheism not Atheism.

---

Well, really no. We stopped looking in the 'spiritual' way because it never worked. We look through every rational perspective there is and find nothing. If you were an atheist looking for god, then you were not neutral, you were bised towards theism. Instead, look at the evidence that is there and decide. Don't go looking for evidence to warp to fit a preconcieved notion.

I think it has been made clear that other people have had similar experiences. And not about god, about many things. Maybe some people have even had experiences like this about other gods (in fact, someone almost certainy has) but you instead choose to ignore this and just assume you are right without seriously considering what other people have to say.

What you guys Never seem to get is that No other god even claims to interact with it's people directly. those gods always use prophets or immesarries to interact with the common folk. Any good will comming from their god is a result of a good karma deal they have with him and his religion.

Except Islam, apparently.

And when god won't answer...

God always answers, 'we' just do not know what to listen for.

So that way you can arbitrarily toss out or accept any dream or coincidence as evidence of god...

---

Actually, yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in...ristianity
[=wikipedia]

Ah, no again.
I gave you a link to an actual translated memo of an Actual Nazi decree effectivly declaring the Nazi party/Hitler as God and you fire back with a wiki artical saying that the the germans Pre 1941 went to church? Again no. If you look at the two links provided you will note the first saying what your wiki artical said. Then July 1 1941 Hitler became a god. The memo I left a link to was declare that all Propagandist speakers and Party leaders submit to Hitler's world view and that all other 'commitments' be cast aside. Why? Because in September 1941 "Phase 3" began. the extermination of the Jews.
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/camps.htm

Many Nazis promoted positive Christianity, a militant, non-denominational form of Christianity which viewed Christ as an active fighter and anti-semite who opposed the institutionalized Judaism of his day.[35] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy within Germany persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.[36]

The Nazi leadership made use of both Christian symbolism, indigenous Germanic pagan imagery, and ancient Roman symbolism in their propaganda. However, the use of pagan symbolism worried some Protestants.[37] Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler,[38] subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly Social Darwinism,[39] or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.[citation needed] Central to both groupings was the belief in Germanic (white Northern-European) racial superiority. The existence of a Ministry of Church Affairs, instituted in 1935 and headed by Hanns Kerrl, was hardly recognized by ideologists such as Alfred Rosenberg or by other political decision-makers.[citation needed]

(bolding added)

The Nazis allowed religion for a time because they knew people would fight for their beliefs when directly opposed, but if they over time slowly erroded away their belief system, with propaganda and victories Hitler would become a god to his own people.

Well, you're half right. The nazis were'nt necessarily affiliated with a particular church, but they did use Christianity inspired anti-semitism as justification for the holocaust.

Your understanding of history is appaluing. I have little more than a history channel understanding of this time period and I know what fulled the hate for the Jews was the sanctions the german people under went after WWI. The Jews controled much of the Money in Europe and it was a combination of Jewish prosperity combined with German hurt German pride that rallied this nation back into another World War.

---

Oh, so that quote was just propoganda to inspire religious sentiment, eh? Makes sense, doesn't it? In that way he is using religion to justify his actions, even if religion was not his primary motivation for doing it.

So now Cinjin and I are both nazis, nice. Which one of us is resorting to dishonerable tactics again?

See what hurt pride does? It scews your view. I did not call you nor Cinjin a nazi. I said you are using the same tatics Nazis used. What is wrong with you people? You are like the 3rd person to make that jump.

Okay, we use nazi tactics, so you say. Maybe if three people took it to mean that you said we were nazis, then you should at least reconsider whether or not it was implied. (With the same level of seriousness with which many presidential candidates have been compared to Hitler, of course.)

[Drich]

Except Islam, apparently

It would help if you read you links before posting them.You are adding fuel to my arguement. For the experience they are recording is one that Moses had (a prophet even to them) and only shared by a select few (emassaries)

So that way you can arbitrarily toss out or accept any dream or coincidence as evidence of god...

Absolutly not. That said 'God' is not the only one who can influence 'dreams.'

Oh, so that quote was just propoganda to inspire religious sentiment, eh? Makes sense, doesn't it? In that way he is using religion to justify his actions, even if religion was not his primary motivation for doing it.

Your not even on point here. If you wish to discuss further go back and re read what has been said.

Okay, we use nazi tactics, so you say. Maybe if three people took it to mean that you said we were nazis, then you should at least reconsider whether or not it was implied. (With the same level of seriousness with which many presidential candidates have been compared to Hitler, of course.)

Seriously? It have taken down this arguement to it's core meaning on three seperate occasions (Not including yours) Very carefully drawing the paralells, while clearly seperating your political beliefs from the tactics used.

[Darkstar]

Except Islam, apparently

It would help if you read you links before posting them.You are adding fuel to my arguement. For the experience they are recording is one that Moses had (a prophet even to them) and only shared by a select few (emassaries)

So if they see Allah in a dream, you will [rightly] assume that it is not genuine? Then why do you not apply this same view to dreams about your own religion? /rhetorical

So that way you can arbitrarily toss out or accept any dream or coincidence as evidence of god...

Absolutly not. That said 'God' is not the only one who can influence 'dreams.'

Really, the main thing to influence dreams would probably be your own ideas and life. God as a concept can influence dreams in that you might dream about god, but a dream is not evidence that the thing being dreamed about is actually real; which is, I think, the main argument being made against the OP.

Oh, so that quote was just propoganda to inspire religious sentiment, eh? Makes sense, doesn't it? In that way he is using religion to justify his actions, even if religion was not his primary motivation for doing it.

Your not even on point here. If you wish to discuss further go back and re read what has been said.[/quote]

Either:
1. Hitler killed the Jews for a number of reasons; the main reason was religion, and he actively displayed this
2. Hitler killed the Jews for a number of reasons; the main reason was not religion, but he knew people would be more accepting if they thought it was, so he used [not exclusively] religious propoganda to win support.

Seriously? It have taken down this arguement to it's core meaning on three seperate occasions (Not including yours) Very carefully drawing the paralells, while clearly seperating your political beliefs from the tactics used.

I'll clarify this. I do not mean to say that you think we are politically nazis, but are comparing us to them as an insult.

[Something completely different]

Hey Darkstar, so you still bother with Drich? Had a friday night out and didn`t bother to come back here.

[Darkstar]

Hey Darkstar, so you still bother with Drich? Had a friday night out and didn`t bother to come back here.

I seem to have near unlimited patience. I do not expect you or anyone else to have this trait. I just...can't often bring myself to give up at something unless continuing is futile and detrimental to my health.
(note that my patience is great but not unlimited in situations of idle waiting)