Experiencing 'proof'

[Darkstar]

I guess we'll have to wait until someone "raises from the dead" to figure out whether or not that little biblical gem is accurate.

Ironically, Jesus allegedly rose someone by the name of Lazarus (different Lazarus, though the dead man in the passage was the rich man).

The story is here (in a few parts, for commenting). It is all from John:11 :

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4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.” 5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6 So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, 7 and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”

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I didn't know that Jesus (incorrectly) stated that Lazarus's sickness would not end in death. So much for omniscence. Now, I know theists will say "but it didn't end in death, he was risen!" but I'd like to point out that he said the sickness would not end in death, and Lazarus was most certainly not sick because he was dead (that, and the fact that he did, in fact, die).

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14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”

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Well, isn't that ironic? Jesus just said he let Lazarus die so he could ressurect him as proof of his divinity. The opposite of what the other Lazarus story said just one book earlier.

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17 On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days.

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Four days...surely he would have seen something of the afterlife by then, right?

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41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”

43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.

Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”

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And there is the ressurection proper.

[Gambit]

I guess we'll have to wait until someone "raises from the dead" to figure out whether or not that little biblical gem is accurate. Hell, at the moment it doesn't appear to be so, because even though the story of christ is complete bullshit...it has convinced a great many people. In fact...it's often pointed to as -the most- convincing utterance in the whole sordid snuff story. No one even gives a shit about fucking "Moses" or some random "prophets".., there's an active attempt to distance the faith from either.

You fucking people ask for way too much. People rising from the dead? Seriously? All I asked for was a healed amputee, so get in line, chumps.

[pocaracas]

For me? Yes. Because every "step" involves magic. What about earnestly engaging in and waiting for the magic that Drich keeps telling us about is supposed to be understandable?

I can understand the force in Star Wars; warp drive in Star Trek; ringwraiths drawn to the One ring in Lord of the Rings... To us, all of these seem like magic, and they truly are made up.
The god part is, as far as I know, the same sort of magic/made up stuff.... it's just older.

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OT:

the kind that makes any internet IQ test show a 140..

An IQ of 140 is actually above the 98% of humanity. Nothing "standard" about it.

HEHE, I specifically said "internet IQ test". Don't these give a score between 135 to 145 to everyone?

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='363225' dateline='1353000233']
You see death as an end. I see it as a birth.

I said I gave up, but I'm too persistent for my own good sometimes. I suppose you might provide some evidence for this claim?

Sure do you see death as the end of life? If yes then you have your proof. For I have stated my beliefs and you will have stated yours.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can understand the force in Star Wars; warp drive in Star Trek; ringwraiths drawn to the One ring in Lord of the Rings...

You can? Care to explain them to me then? I'm of the opinion that if one can understand something..one is generally able to explain it.

To us, all of these seem like magic, and they truly are made up.
The god part is, as far as I know, the same sort of magic/made up stuff.... it's just older.

I think what you might mean is that you understand -that these things are made up-. Not that you actually understand the force, or a warp drive, or a ringwraith. Drich....on the other hand...is not referring to made up things, at least...that's his position on the matter.

[pocaracas]

I can understand the force in Star Wars; warp drive in Star Trek; ringwraiths drawn to the One ring in Lord of the Rings...

You can? Care to explain them to me then? I'm of the opinion that if one can understand something..one is generally able to explain it.

Well, I understand their effect. I understand what they're supposed to do... not their inner workings.
That's what I mean when I say I understand Drich's position.
I understand what he wants to make of it, but not how it can really work.

To us, all of these seem like magic, and they truly are made up.
The god part is, as far as I know, the same sort of magic/made up stuff.... it's just older.

I think what you might mean is that you understand -that these things are made up-. Not that you actually understand the force, or a warp drive, or a ringwraith. Drich....on the other hand...is not referring to made up things, at least...that's his position on the matter.

Aye, right.... but he is referring to made up things... he's just not aware of it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, I understand their effect. I understand what they're supposed to do... not their inner workings.

But again, what is their effect...what do they do? "Vader -uses- the force to choke people" -Okay, you understand what Vader uses the force for..that's still not an understanding of the force (it's quite a bit more to do with Vader)..if you knew -how- the force choked people that would be an understanding of the force.

That's what I mean when I say I understand Drich's position.
I understand what he wants to make of it, but not how it can really work.

So you feel you understand what Drich wants, how that leads to an understanding of the "force" he would have us accept as fact is a mystery to me. I'm not saying that you don't..I'd just like to understand it in the way you feel that you understand it.

Aye, right.... but he is referring to made up things... he's just not aware of it.

Okay, and so it's more accurate to say that he understand what he wants..but given that his reasons for this consist entirely of insisting that imaginary shit is real...given that he appears to be in a state of mind that prevents normal perception of things..such as dreams.. how could I understand this? How do we know that Drich even understands it? He's clearly incapable of explaining any of it....

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as a fun little bonus...part of my response is actually a copy-paste of a definition for insanity........

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[Welsh cake]

If you don't want it, or if your one of those who can't worship a God that does not accept your morality/you for who you are then know I am not speaking to you.

Apparently, you don't know how the message board, in the public domain works, do you? You see, when you start a new public thread, you are speaking to everyone who comes across this thread. The OP establishes that you are the speaker, and we are your audience.

If you don't like that, if you don't like us as an audience, if you can't deal with getting multiple responses that you don't want because you can't defend your position or make a convincing argument, then I advise you send private messages to people.

[The Grand Nudger]

Whoah...whoah....you want a bunch of Chick Tracts popping up in your PMs out of nowhere Welsh? Count me the fuck out on that one Drich..if you go that route.

[Cinjin]

o god no,
Who the hell would want to have any personal conversation with that buffoon??? That's why he's here ... not even the christards like to play with him.