I cant take it!

[Tobyone]

I get it that in the west we live in an insular society and generally have enough to eat and somewhere to sleep indoors in the warm. I also get it that people more often than not have religion pushed on them without choice by their parents. I have a problem though. I swear if I hear someone say Allahu Akbar again I am going to explode.

The problem is not the people but the way, even when their friends, family, and even themselves are being shot/gassed/blown up they have this unbending faith in someone or something that is going to save them or they are going to heaven. Its just nuts and it makes me really mad that this is on their mind at the time. Even the extremist guys shout it when they are killing/being killed.

I care about whats going on in the middle east and other places where people cant live freely, i really do, and its so sad what is happening in some places. For so many people to believe something so far fetched is really worrying considering media poisons different groups against each other. I dont remember Islam ever being this extreme, or being portrayed as this extreme. Is it the case that humanity in Islamic nations cannot develop because the way they think inside the religion is so totally hardline? Is there any Islamic nation that treats its people fairly - i.e. women and homosexuals (and anyone not Muslim or 'normal'). I heard a displaced civilian talk in Syria today - she said Assad was a pig, and that Islam must win this fight. I nearly had a meltdown.

Someone said to me the other day of an organisation 'they have good christian values'. I cant understand why people have to follow a set of rules that are attached to a religion. surely thats what law is for...i.e. dont be an arse to other people etc. I felt sick when he said it. I think these guys are mad too btw.

I think expressing my feelings and thoughts here can make me a more understanding person. I hope it can anyway. The sheer frustration of listening to this crap on the news everyday has totally polarised my view of religion. I was never religious anyway, but it never bothered me before. I dont think im particularly intolerant but i am a scientist. If in science we made statements of fact based on no evidence we would be laughed out of the room by other scientists, ironically and by religion.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Cue people calling you an islamaphobe and re-iterating that the majority of muslims aren't "like that" (ie blowing themselves up over a deluded belief). Which is true.

It is also true that some muslims do fit your description. One thing all muslims and christians have in common is delusion - it's what can stem from that delusion that concerns rational people.

The only solution is to eradicate all religion.

Oh yeah, I'm not stupid enough to think that crushing religion will stop mankind fighting, but at least we might move on to fighting over real, tangible stuff, instead of fairies. It would be one small step in the right direction.

[Something completely different]

Nothing wrong with being critical of Islam.

But a damn lot wrong if you simply throw them all in a box and stick a warning sign on that box.

Once you can make a destinction between Salafism, Sufism, Shia, Suni, Wahabi and other - you will see which influences amongst the islamic comunity preach violence and have a negative influence and which dont.

A comunity always consists of Individuals - who oftern have their own destinctive views.

[pocaracas]

Well, hello to you too!
Next time, browse all this fine forum's categories and pay attention to the one entitled "Introductions". It's a good place to start and to let yourself known to the other users.

That said, I want you to do something for yourself.
Start any recording app you may have and say these words: Allahu Akbar.
Stop recording and playback....


By now, you must have exploded!


Man, I never heard those words, nor do I know what they mean.... and I'm not sure I want to know.

As for everyone trying to invoke their preferred divinity into any conversation... yes, it does happen... They are formatted to speak like that, it becomes their language and they aren't even aware of the content of what they're saying.... I just ignore it... no point in starting an argument which will most likely never end.

[Aractus]

Welcome to the forums friend! I'm an Islamaphobic too, we have much to discuss.

I dont think im particularly intolerant but i am a scientist. If in science we made statements of fact based on no evidence we would be laughed out of the room by other scientists, ironically and by religion.

What is the nature of your work, if you don't mind me asking?

[Tobyone]

I think I need to further explain what it is that gets me.

I'm not an islamaphobe, a racist or anything else. What I'm saying is that it seems more and more people are referring to 'god' when expressing themselves. Even when they are being shot people shout god is great. Is that not a bit mad? We get fed a diet of Islam as the big bad religion that wants to kill all non muslims and noone refers to the different parts of Islam so we actually understand who to be dismissive of.

Christianity, although just as frightening when spouted by fundamentalists, isn't given the same press. It's just all so warped.

I am in anatomy.

[jonb]

If I have got you right to an extent what we are partly talking about here are expletives.
First I would propose the expletive is used to express our distress, and have others register it.
My understanding of the Islamic cultural background; In Arabic cultures it is culturally wrong to cause a problem for another because of your own situation. Thus nobody outright will say no to your face, but they tend to have various ways of saying yes negatively, so as not to cause offence. and you get the thing that women should cover themselves over rather than men being expected to control themselves. Given that, as a culture how could you swear? The very act of swearing is there to cause offence. Now you can't get rid of the need we people have to make expletives, so the Islamic culture has produced an expletive that can be used to register distress without causing offence.
A literal translation of Allahu Akbar would be god is great, but to my mind a better translation of the meaning would be 'there is more to life than this shit.'
In the west the expletive is meant to cause offence. Thus in the middle ages, you get references to magical curses, blasphemy, and diarrhoea, which was the main cause of child death. Latter in sexually constricted times, expletives around sexual parts, and the sex act came to dominate as causing the most offence.

God as an expletive has a long history, and is used more to upset religious types than it has been used as an affirmation of faith.

You might even want to see 'god' as an expletive being used as a confirmation that religion is slowly moving to becoming beyond the pail. Something that is seen as wrong.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think the screaming about god the OP is referring to is an example of something just a little less complicated than all that Jon. More like a synonym for "abracadabra". It's part of a magical spell meant to sanctify whatever the fuck is going on (especially if whatever the fuck is going on would be otherwise condemned) - essentially the short shot to a long stay in paradise. Not that any single group has a stranglehold on this phrase, but the usage I think the OP is referring to is very distinct (and I wouldn't call anyone who was suspicious of or disgusted by those who used it in this way an islamophobe, more like a psycho/sociopath -ophobe).

(Many muslims would tell you that the words do not actually have this effect btw Toby, that those who use them this way would be aptly considered a cult within islam, and that the ways they go about their jihad - even if we consider jihad legitimate- are thoroughly in opposition to the description of how jihad (or any conflict) should be waged as per the quran)

[Minimalist]

What I'm saying is that it seems more and more people are referring to 'god' when expressing themselves.

Sometimes it is just a figure of speech. Sometimes they are being dicks. Xtians do the same thing though with their "god bless you" shit.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Allah-Ahkbar are stop-words.

But I think the islamic belief is so firm because of their poor social-economic situation. Also, we see the difference between individualism and collectivism in culture. People doubting god, we can't see. But knowing this, sometimes I can't take it either....women in Saoudi Arabia etc. It's so to say evil.