Day #3 Out of the Closet

[FallentoReason]

In a 5 paragraph Facebook status update, I told everyone I know that I haven't believed in the Christian god this entire year. The main gist of it though was basically me asking for acceptance and no judgement because, believe it or not, I was 100% sincere during my 5-6 of serving the Christian god.

Over the past 3 days, I feel like my popularity has doubled. I've received a ton of texts from friends saying "hey, haven't seen you in ages! Let's catch up ". This of course is not related to how much or how little we have seen each other, but an opportunity for them to win over a soul for "the anointed one".

I don't know how to proceed from here. I discussed it with my dad and he reckons that me explaining the "cold truth" is better than me not wanting to engage in conversation because I'm afraid of hurting them. But I'm wondering if it's at all ethical to take away someone's happiness and replace it with the "cold truth". Who am I to decide for them what they deserve? It's 100% true that ignorance is bliss in my opinion, and if they want to believe in that stuff then fine, so be it! Unfortunately, the stuff they believe in has in-built mechanisms that will trigger their apologetic reflexes whenever they see an opportunity to convert someone.

How do I deal with this?!?!
P.s. part of the problem is that I know hands down how fragile some of my friends' faiths are. E.g: my friend at youth group came up to me with a worried look and asked me "um.. could you please explain the god particle (Higgs Boson) to me?". Simple scientific advances threaten to destroy her faith! Imagine what would happen if I brought up even one of the fundamental problems that get discussed on here to my friends, which in my opinion, live under a rock compared to us who are at the very end of the bell curve of exposure to theological, philosophical, scientific, ethical (etc.) arguments and ideas. I feel like I could cause a lot of damage...

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Your life, your decision. Their lives, their decision. The promise of an afterlife not excisting is also damaging, right? Good luck.

[Kirbmarc]

I discussed it with my dad and he reckons that me explaining the "cold truth" is better than me not wanting to engage in conversation because I'm afraid of hurting them. But I'm wondering if it's at all ethical to take away someone's happiness and replace it with the "cold truth". Who am I to decide for them what they deserve? It's 100% true that ignorance is bliss in my opinion,

If their egos are fragile enough to be shocked by the truth, they definitely need to grow a spine. Ignorance is not bliss, it's a drug.

I feel like I could cause a lot of damage...

Or maybe do a lot of good. You don't have to assume that all people are fragile porcelain dolls. As long as you're nor forcing anyone to do anything and you don't insult anyone personally, any bad feeling that they experience is only due to their immaturity.

I have plenty of theist friends who enjoy a healthy debate and are not afraid of my opinions. I'm sure that most of friends are mature enough to do the same.

Simple scientific advances threaten to destroy her faith!

Why is that a bad thing?

[FallentoReason]

If their egos are fragile enough to be shocked by the truth, they definitely need to grow a spine. Ignorance is not bliss, it's a drug.

Fair point!

Or maybe do a lot of good. You don't have to assume that all people are fragile porcelain dolls. As long as you're nor forcing anyone to do anything and you don't insult anyone personally, any bad feeling that they experience is only due to their immaturity.

I have plenty of theist friends who enjoy a healthy debate and are not afraid of my opinions. I'm sure that most of friends are mature enough to do the same.

I just think that contrary to what we may think about this, the human brain actually retains the information is has received especially when it hits "home" or it rattles your beliefs. I know this from my experience of deconversion. In the very very early stages where I was still 99% Christian, I had thoughts at the back of my head that I would deny on forums, but deep down I knew that those atheists were right about that certain thing we happened to be discussing. How long until one comes to accept those thoughts? Well, it really depends on the person. My point is though, that I am perfectly capable of planting those seeds whether they tell me outright that they can handle a hardcore debate on the topic or not. Once they have heard the argument then the damage is already done, whether they say they disagree with you or not.

Why is that a bad thing?

Because I can see the happiness she gets out of religion. What's more important; happiness or the truth? I guess the issue I'm struggling with here is a lot deeper than that because I can look at myself and say that I'm arguably a lot happier with my current belief than with Christianity. What I'm not so happy about though is that now that all my friends know who I really am, I feel like I might have to rebuild my life. E.g: I can't really date any of the girls I know anymore because so much of our views on life conflict. Therefore I need to start meeting new people altogether... so coming back to the original point, if her "world" is destroyed then I'm confident that she will face hardships that will make her anything but happy like she is right now.

[Kirbmarc]

Because I can see the happiness she gets out of religion

But what if she can find that happiness elsewhere? You can't know what she might experience. She's probably stronger than you imagine.

What's more important; happiness or the truth?

It's a false dicotomy. One does not exclude the other. A drug addict is undoubtedly happy at times, but is his happiness healthy?

I feel like I might have to rebuild my life.

We all od that all the time. It's called growing up, and it's the only way not to suffer when childish illusions are shattered. Life is nothing but building, changing and rebuilding again.

if her "world" is destroyed then I'm confident that she will face hardships that will make her anything but happy like she is right now.

Or maybe she will just ignore your ideas and move on. Or even be happier after she becomes more mentally aware about the weaknesses of her religion. You can't know that for sure. The only thing that you know is that she, as a human beings and even more so as friend, deserves respect and to be treated as an equal, neither as an object of scorn (and you got that part right) nor as a precious snowflake.

If she's an adult (and I suppose she is) , then she's mature enough to have a civil conversation about her philosophy. Thinking otherwise would be insulting for her intelligence and emotional maturity.

I can't really date any of the girls I know anymore because so much of our views on life conflict.

It's not necessarily true. I had a religious girlfriend and I never had problems about our conflicting views. The only problems we had were personal ones.

[pocaracas]

So many problems over such an insignificant thing...
In case you haven't yet noticed, I'm an atheist.
A few years ago, I married a nice catholic girl. She knows my point of view quite well, but she still goes to church every Sunday. So we clash on that detail of "world view".... we are just so right on so many other aspects that it becomes irrelevant.

If your girl's faith is that weak, then it might just be a good thing to get rid of it... or maybe it will just get strengthened. You just never know the outcome of these things...

[FallentoReason]

Because I can see the happiness she gets out of religion

But what if she can find that happiness elsewhere? You can't know what she might experience. She's probably stronger than you imagine.

Stronger in what sense?

What's more important; happiness or the truth?

It's a false dicotomy. One does not exclude the other. A drug addict is undoubtedly happy at times, but is his happiness healthy?

I know on the surface it's a false dichotomy. That's why I expanded my thought to include the possibility that she might be just as happy (or happier) knowing the truth. But at what cost?

I feel like I might have to rebuild my life.

We all od that all the time. It's called growing up, and it's the only way not to suffer when childish illusions are shattered. Life is nothing but building, changing and rebuilding again.

This is true, but I guess part of my problem is that in a way I'm deciding for them that they might have to go down this path of mass rebuilding like I'll have to. I don't want to carry that burden.

if her "world" is destroyed then I'm confident that she will face hardships that will make her anything but happy like she is right now.

Or maybe she will just ignore your ideas and move on. Or even be happier after she becomes more mentally aware about the weaknesses of her religion. You can't know that for sure. The only thing that you know is that she, as a human beings and even more so as friend, deserves respect and to be treated as an equal, neither as an object of scorn (and you got that part right) nor as a precious snowflake.

If she's an adult (and I suppose she is) , then she's mature enough to have a civil conversation about her philosophy. Thinking otherwise would be insulting for her intelligence and emotional maturity.

Yeah, I guess I mostly agree with what you say here.

I can't really date any of the girls I know anymore because so much of our views on life conflict.

It's not necessarily true. I had a religious girlfriend and I never had problems about our conflicting views. The only problems we had were personal ones.

Each to their own I suppose. My problem is though that I'm surrounded by girls who think the world is the way it is because a woman who never had a childhood bit an apple. Things are just bound to go wrong between a fundie and a hybrid Deist.

---

So many problems over such an insignificant thing...
In case you haven't yet noticed, I'm an atheist.
A few years ago, I married a nice catholic girl. She knows my point of view quite well, but she still goes to church every Sunday. So we clash on that detail of "world view".... we are just so right on so many other aspects that it becomes irrelevant.

If your girl's faith is that weak, then it might just be a good thing to get rid of it... or maybe it will just get strengthened. You just never know the outcome of these things...

I guess I should maybe let each of my friends have a chance to discuss with me. They're all obviously different people with differing resistances to cognitive dissonance (where the higher the resistance, the harder it is to shake them from their belief). Something just gives me this gut feeling that it isn't right to alter the path they've chosen though...

[Kirbmarc]

Stronger in what sense?

Emotionally stronger. If she's an adult, she has to ability not to fall apart just because someone argues against her beliefs.

n a way I'm deciding for them that they might have to go down this path of mass rebuilding like I'll have to.

No, you aren't. You're not forcing them to believe you. They can easily refuse to change their beliefs. Fundamentalist Christians are challenged and proven wrong dozens of times on this forum, but they rarely change their minds.

My problem is though that I'm surrounded by girls who think the world is the way it is because a woman who never had a childhood bit an apple.

Where do you live, Fallen?

Something just gives me this gut feeling that it isn't right to alter the path they've chosen though..

You're not altering anything. They are in control of their lives, you're not mind-controlling them. If they decide to change, it's their decision, not yours.

[pocaracas]

Then don't! Don't go out of your way to tell them they're wrong. Only tell them if they ask you.
If the topic doesn't arise, don't mention it. Being friends with people doesn't mean that all have the same way of looking at the world, nor the same way of acting upon problems and difficulties. Being friends is all about not thinking any less of other people because they don't think like you... I know, I should never even apply for a job writing cards for Hallmark.

[Minimalist]

But I'm wondering if it's at all ethical to take away someone's happiness and replace it with the "cold truth".

To thine own self, be true --Shakespeare