Why are the Christians so vague?

[RichardP]

I was listening on the radio to the end of a "Christian" talk show and hosts said an extremely vague prayer -- something about avoiding "evil" and choosing what is "right", even though it is impossible sometimes and you find yourself caught in the "middle", and that we shouldn't "formalize" evil...

Boy they sure keep it vague! I think that they are terrified out of their minds when it comes to making a moral statement. They sure don't want to alienate anybody or lose any support. What the hell is the crap about times when it is impossible to do the "right" thing? What the hell? I would think that they would at least argue that we should always try to do the right thing -- and not make up a fucking excuse like "It was impossible to do the right thing".

Of course it is so damn vague that they could be referring to almost anything. And when it's so damn vague it's meaningless to me.

But maybe it's better if I didn't know what they were referring to. It might be that they are upset because their kids can't pray out loud in class, or maybe they are upset about something horrifying like masturbating, or maybe worse.. a woman's bare nipple!!! Or maybe some Priest did something really really bad... like had sex with a woman..

If the Jesus of the Bible was real (And not a creation of the Romans) than he is probably turning over in his grave.

[Violet]

Vague is easy. Easy is easier to cash in. Cash is awesome.

[Minimalist]

Boy they sure keep it vague!

Its the vagueness which allows Herr Von Popenfuhrer to claim to be a man of god while protecting child rapists.

It takes some mental gymnastics but somehow their godboy gets them through unscathed.

[Angrboda]

Seems like a straight forward application of the Forer effect (also known as the Barnum effect).

"The Forer effect .. is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people." ()


"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Voltaire

[Dee Dee Ramone]

If the Jesus of the Bible was real (And not a creation of the Romans) than he is probably turning over in his grave.

If Jesus was real, he'd be dead by now indeed.

[RichardP]

If the Jesus of the Bible was real (And not a creation of the Romans) than he is probably turning over in his grave.

If Jesus was real, he'd be dead by now indeed.

So I take it you don't believe the whole rose from the dead and flew off to heaven on a chariot story.

[Minimalist]

Livy reports the same silly 'flying-up-to-heaven' trick with Romulus.

Having accomplished these works deserving of immortality, while he was holding an assembly of the people for reviewing his army, in the plain near the Goat's pool, a storm suddenly came on, accompanied by loud thunder and lightning, and enveloped the king in so dense a mist, that it entirely hid him from the sight of the assembly. After this Romulus was never seen again upon earth. The feeling of consternation having at length calmed down, and the weather having become clear and fine again after so stormy a day, the Roman youth seeing the royal seat empty -- though they readily believed the words of the fathers who had stood nearest him, that he had been carried up to heaven by the storm

T. Livius "The Early History of Rome"


Apparently, this was somewhat expected behavior in the ancient world.

[Drich]

I was listening on the radio to the end of a "Christian" talk show and hosts said an extremely vague prayer -- something about avoiding "evil" and choosing what is "right", even though it is impossible sometimes and you find yourself caught in the "middle", and that we shouldn't "formalize" evil...

Boy they sure keep it vague! I think that they are terrified out of their minds when it comes to making a moral statement.

Maybe because morality is subjective to time, culture, and popular intepertation. Maybe the preacher knows that 'morality' is just a form a self righteousness, and as Christ as turned his back on the 'Moral' so too the radio preacher does not see a need to speak or pray to the 'moral' among us.

They sure don't want to alienate anybody or lose any support.

-or- you simply do not grasp basic christianity.

What the hell is the crap about times when it is impossible to do the "right" thing?

This echos what Pauls says in Romans 8. In that we are slaves to sin. forever bound to it and will never NEVER be able to be good or 'moral' enough to merit Heaven by our deeds or 'morality.' Which subsequently is why we are told to seek attonement for our sins, and not to 'moralize them.'

What the hell? I would think that they would at least argue that we should always try to do the right thing -- and not make up a fucking excuse like "It was impossible to do the right thing".

Again if you understood basic Christianity you would see the very first thing biblical Christianity is based on is the fact that our deeds will never be 'good enough.' So we should give up that effort and seek redemption through attonement rather than trying to earn it through our efforts.

Of course it is so damn vague that they could be referring to almost anything. And when it's so damn vague it's meaningless to me.

Then perhaps you should consider the obvious.

[RichardP]

I was listening on the radio to the end of a "Christian" talk show and hosts said an extremely vague prayer -- something about avoiding "evil" and choosing what is "right", even though it is impossible sometimes and you find yourself caught in the "middle", and that we shouldn't "formalize" evil...

Boy they sure keep it vague! I think that they are terrified out of their minds when it comes to making a moral statement.

Maybe because morality is subjective to time, culture, and popular intepertation. Maybe the preacher knows that 'morality' is just a form a self righteousness, and as Christ as turned his back on the 'Moral' so too the radio preacher does not see a need to speak or pray to the 'moral' among us.

They sure don't want to alienate anybody or lose any support.

-or- you simply do not grasp basic christianity.

What the hell is the crap about times when it is impossible to do the "right" thing?

This echos what Pauls says in Romans 8. In that we are slaves to sin. forever bound to it and will never NEVER be able to be good or 'moral' enough to merit Heaven by our deeds or 'morality.' Which subsequently is why we are told to seek attonement for our sins, and not to 'moralize them.'

What the hell? I would think that they would at least argue that we should always try to do the right thing -- and not make up a fucking excuse like "It was impossible to do the right thing".

Again if you understood basic Christianity you would see the very first thing biblical Christianity is based on is the fact that our deeds will never be 'good enough.' So we should give up that effort and seek redemption through attonement rather than trying to earn it through our efforts.

Of course it is so damn vague that they could be referring to almost anything. And when it's so damn vague it's meaningless to me.

Then perhaps you should consider the obvious.

The prayer was so vague that it didn't mean anything to me. What is the point? I don't know if other people got anything out of it. I sure didn't. My point was that if you are going to talk about avoiding "evil" and doing "good" then you should cite at least a few examples of "good" and "evil" so that people know what you have in mind. I mean you could pray: "Jesus help us to always do "good" and avoid "evil".", or you could pray "Jesus help us to be helpful, considerate, and generous to others in need -- the poor, the sick, the elderly, the homeless.."

And I see a definite difference between what Paul taught and what Jesus taught. Back when I was a believer I did not think much of Paul. But the New Testament would be pretty short without all of his "Letters". It seems that Paul was awfully self-centered while Jesus focused on others.

[FutureAndAHope]

My view of Christianity is very different from the guy you mentioned. A guy once spoke to me from God, what we call a prophet, and he said "God is calling you to be black and white", meaning not mixing good and evil in our lives. As a Christian I am not saying I have never sinned, but in my life I choose to live a life that to the best of my ability has no shades of grey. I think too many Christians excuse sin, even miss quote the bible to excuse it. A christian should have no known sin, and should encourage others to have no sin also, anything else is false doctrine.