Without citing the bible, what marks the bible as the one book with God's message?

[Lion IRC]

Thats a great Op whateverist.

Lets get rid of 7.089 billion people on earth.

Now theres just you and me and a handful of folk - relatives.

We all, bar 1 or 2 (who trust their friends, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, have no motive to lie,) experience a supernatural event which we think indicates that we are not alone.

We write that event in a book because it was so numinous and so strongly believed that it must be captured in a historic record. The event doesnt involve anything that commands or requires us to write it down. We just DO because we want to remember it accurately and tell our kids.

Now, the book, therefore, is special not in and of itself but because the event that it records has meaning.

Now take the scenario and factor in a modified supernatural event which involves a requirement for witnesses to be sure not to ever forget the event and to be sure to keep the recording of the event as a sacred and useful text. Now you have an additional incentive to preserve the text - obedience out of enlightened self-interest.

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Of course over time more people are born and some may become skeptics, but the book is still ''special'' for the original reasons given no matter how many people later disbelieve it happened.

[Minimalist]

Does not remotely address the questions asked in the OP which were:

Remember Christians, the challenge is to justify 1) that the bible is the special book and 2) that a literal interpretation is the one intended by your god .. without (for obvious reasons) citing the bible itself.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Thats a great Op whateverist.

Lets get rid of 7.089 billion people on earth.

Now theres just you and me and a handful of folk - relatives.

We all, bar 1 or 2 (who trust their friends, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, have no motive to lie,) experience a supernatural event which we think indicates that we are not alone.

We write that event in a book because it was so numinous and so strongly believed that it must be captured in a historic record. The event doesnt involve anything that commands or requires us to write it down. We just DO because we want to remember it accurately and tell our kids.

Now, the book, therefore, is special not in and of itself but because the event that it records has meaning.

Now take the scenario and factor in a modified supernatural event which involves a requirement for witnesses to be sure not to ever forget the event and to be sure to keep the recording of the event as a sacred and useful text. Now you have an additional incentive to preserve the text - obedience out of enlightened self-interest.

---

Of course over time more people are born and some may become skeptics, but the book is still ''special'' for the original reasons given no matter how many people later disbelieve it happened.

Wow. That's rather question begging. Assuming the supernatural in proving it.

[Whateverist]

Lets get rid of 7.089 billion people on earth.

Now theres just you and me and a handful of folk - relatives.

We all, bar 1 or 2 (who trust their friends, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, have no motive to lie,) experience a supernatural event which we think indicates that we are not alone.

We write that event in a book because it was so numinous and so strongly believed that it must be captured in a historic record. The event doesnt involve anything that commands or requires us to write it down. We just DO because we want to remember it accurately and tell our kids.

Now, the book, therefore, is special not in and of itself but because the event that it records has meaning.

Now take the scenario and factor in a modified supernatural event which involves a requirement for witnesses to be sure not to ever forget the event and to be sure to keep the recording of the event as a sacred and useful text. Now you have an additional incentive to preserve the text - obedience out of enlightened self-interest.

---

Of course over time more people are born and some may become skeptics, but the book is still ''special'' for the original reasons given no matter how many people later disbelieve it happened.

Thank you for considering the question. I think I get your drift and I can see how that might motivate those involved. But what if it turns out that the tribes in the next valley have had their own revelation which they too have been passing down, generation by generation. Lets say that part of each revelation involved a claim to exclusivity. Should the two tribes each interpret the other's claim as blasphemy? Should either of them insist on exclusivity? In the interest of living together in the area, shouldn't they adopt a policy of tolerance and perhaps even respect for each other's claims? Recognizing how important their revelation is to them, why shouldn't they empathize with the feelings of the other group in this regard.

[Minimalist]

But what if it turns out that the tribes in the next valley have had their own revelation which they too have been passing down, generation by generation.

Um..'god' usually says to "kill them."

[Lion IRC]

The existence of another tribe which ALSO had a supernatural event that they understood or interpreted differently (and/or mis-reported) doesnt undermine the accuracy or specialness of the first tribes book. In fact BOTH books might be highly valued as special by a person trying to find out which was true.

I'm just trying to show that the book is special on account of how it came into being and that adequately answers your challenge to justify how a book can come to be thought of as special without self-reference to the books content. A history book can be valuable as a thing independently of whether you like the history it records.

Yes, to those who were on the winning side of a conflict, a history book recording that victory might be more ''special'' than to someone not involved in the conflict but it is still a valuable book as far as librarians are concerned.

Or to put it another way, you dont need to be a Jew or a Christian to value the KJV.

And another thing!

Lets not forget that Moses and Abraham and Noah and Job didnt have "The Bible" so The Word of God was special long before it appeared in a book.

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Wow. That's rather question begging. Assuming the supernatural in proving it.

Oh come on!!!

The Op says justify the specialness of the book without relying on the books contents and now you say dont mention the supernatural (God) cos thats BTQ. Sheesh!

You win. You cant have a bible if theres no God to talk about in the bible.

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[Zen Badger]

The existence of another tribe which ALSO had a supernatural event that they understood or interpreted differently (and/or mis-reported) doesnt undermine the accuracy or specialness of the first tribes book. In fact BOTH books might be highly valued as special by a person trying to find out which was true.

I'm just trying to show that the book is special on account of how it came into being and that adequately answers your challenge to justify how a book can come to be thought of as special without self-reference to the books content. A history book can be valuable as a thing independently of whether you like the history it records.

Yes, to those who were on the winning side of a conflict, a history book recording that victory might be more ''special'' than to someone not involved in the conflict but it is still a valuable book as far as librarians are concerned.

Or to put it another way, you dont need to be a Jew or a Christian to value the KJV.

And another thing!

Lets not forget that Moses and Abraham and Noah and Job didnt have "The Bible" so The Word of God was special long before it appeared in a book.

---

Wow. That's rather question begging. Assuming the supernatural in proving it.

Oh come on!!!

The Op says justify the specialness of the book without relying on the books contents and now you say dont mention the supernatural (God) cos thats BTQ. Sheesh!

You win. You cant have a bible if theres no God to talk about in the bible.

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Whateverist(I think) is asking you to show why the bible is "the book" by using sources external to the bible. Not that the bible contains god and must therefore, be true.

[YahwehIsTheWay]

Hey, yhwh,

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2013010...0H5G3.html

Angolan media say 10 people, including four children, have died in a stampede during a religious gathering at a sports stadium in Luanda, the Angolan capital.

Why did you allow these people of yours to be trampled to death for your glory? Did they fuck up somehow? Were the children as guilty as the adults? Why do you have to be such a prick all the time?

If the people were Christian, they went to Heaven and are now in a better place so we shouldn't feel sorry for them.

If not, they just went to Hell a bit ahead of schedule. Not a big deal considering how long 50 some odd years is in comparison to eternity and the lost were probably predestined to be lost anyway.

So hey, when you believe that death is only a path to some eternal destination, likely predestined anyway, you can trivialize a tragedy like this one. It's only Hellbound heathen trash like you that get all bent out of shape over death and have silly ideas like "isn't that tragic". As if human life should mean anything.

[out of character/]
EDIT: Boy, this post was pretty Gothic but you have to admit, if you really do believe and take that belief to its logical conclusion, it's a pretty small step to completely trivialize our existence here in the real world.

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Wow. That's rather question begging. Assuming the supernatural in proving it.

That's the power of faith!

[Whateverist]

[out of character/]
EDIT: Boy, this post was pretty Gothic but you have to admit, if you really do believe and take that belief to its logical conclusion, it's a pretty small step to completely trivialize our existence here in the real world.

I've always thought this. My father was bible a thumper and it always seemed to me that he was annoyed with this life. I'm pretty sure if he ever thought god wanted him to sacrifice a son, he would've beat Aaron's time and got it done before any angel could step in. Yeah, it just seemed like his only purpose in life was to get his ticket stamped for the 'big show' in the 'next life'.

[fr0d0]

justify 1) that the bible is the special book and 2) that a literal interpretation is the one intended by your god .. without (for obvious reasons) citing the bible itself.

1. Justification results from human intellect leading to deduction.
2. An understanding (literal interpretation) is what God chooses to bestow upon you.