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The rock God can't lift.

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The rock God can't lift.
Tiberius Offline
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#61
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Right, and that is called imagination. Which is why it is a broken concept. No standards. Make shit up to suit one's own desires.
No, it's called logic. Find the flaw in my logic if you want, but you can't just reject my argument by calling it imagination.
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Ryantology Offline
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#62
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 6:55 pm
(January 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm)Tiberius Wrote: "Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?" is a loaded question, and a logical fallacy.

At the very most, it only denies an absolutist version of omnipotence that almost nobody believes in in the first place. The question could really be asked this way: "Can God make square circles?". Most theists I've talked to believe in a version of omnipotence in which God can perform every action that is logically possible.

By definition, omnipotence has to be absolute, doesn't it? If God has limits, then 'omnipotent' is the wrong term to describe him. If God is forced to conform to logical rules, who made those rules, and what force compels even God to act within them? If you believe that our universe must have had a creator (because 'random chance' couldn't have done it), you logically have to believe that an even higher being made the rules God has to follow. This, of course, leads either to infinite regress, or to an assertion that God made rules even he cannot break, which is the ultimate expression of the "rock God can't lift".

Perhaps the simplest and most vital reason to believe in God is that there is no higher, more powerful, being to worship. The problem is, if God is subject to any limits he cannot overcome, including the limit of 'logically possible', then he cannot be the most powerful thing in existence. Logic must be more powerful than God. And, we are left to wonder where logic comes from? Is God subject to the same dumb natural forces a secularist already believes are responsible for the universe, or is there a being even higher than God?

In either case, there's no justification for worshiping Yahweh. Either he doesn't exist, or he's merely the next step up from us in a virtually infinite hierarchy (all of which themselves would suffer from the infinite regress argument; why worship any of them, either?).
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pocaracas Offline
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#63
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 7:20 pm
I'm still waiting for someone to say that they mistranslated something from aramaic, or hebrew, or greek, to "all-powerful". The original word meant something else. Wink

At best, god can't convey a message properly. This is a logical statement, confirmed by evidence.
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Cinjin Offline Donators
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#64
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 8:33 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(January 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Right, and that is called imagination. Which is why it is a broken concept. No standards. Make shit up to suit one's own desires.
No, it's called logic. Find the flaw in my logic if you want, but you can't just reject my argument by calling it imagination.

Awe yes ... the ole Atheist Forums stand-by: "Nu-uh"

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Lion IRC Offline
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#65
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm
God can do anything.
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Tea Earl Grey Hot Offline
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#66
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm (This post was last modified: January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he make himself not exist?
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#67
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:14 pm
There's another one for you Tibs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Minimalist Offline Donators
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#68
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:21 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he create a rock he can't lift?

[Image: 9419_exhausted_woman_running_around_in_c...oncept.png]
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Lion IRC Offline
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#69
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:21 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he make himself not exist?

Do you mean temporarily or permanently?
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Tea Earl Grey Hot Offline
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#70
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
We should rename this thread "Groundhog Day."
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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The rock God can't lift.

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