Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 30, 2024, 5:07 pm
Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
The rock God can't lift.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
The rock God can't lift.
Tiberius Offline
Question Everything.
*******
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 14932
Threads: 684
Joined: August 25, 2008
Reputation: 143
#61
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Right, and that is called imagination. Which is why it is a broken concept. No standards. Make shit up to suit one's own desires.
No, it's called logic. Find the flaw in my logic if you want, but you can't just reject my argument by calling it imagination.
Find
Reply
Ryantology Offline
shitlord
*****
Religious Views: I believe in the great abstract.
Posts: 5598
Threads: 112
Joined: July 16, 2012
Reputation: 74
#62
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 6:55 pm
(January 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm)Tiberius Wrote: "Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?" is a loaded question, and a logical fallacy.

At the very most, it only denies an absolutist version of omnipotence that almost nobody believes in in the first place. The question could really be asked this way: "Can God make square circles?". Most theists I've talked to believe in a version of omnipotence in which God can perform every action that is logically possible.

By definition, omnipotence has to be absolute, doesn't it? If God has limits, then 'omnipotent' is the wrong term to describe him. If God is forced to conform to logical rules, who made those rules, and what force compels even God to act within them? If you believe that our universe must have had a creator (because 'random chance' couldn't have done it), you logically have to believe that an even higher being made the rules God has to follow. This, of course, leads either to infinite regress, or to an assertion that God made rules even he cannot break, which is the ultimate expression of the "rock God can't lift".

Perhaps the simplest and most vital reason to believe in God is that there is no higher, more powerful, being to worship. The problem is, if God is subject to any limits he cannot overcome, including the limit of 'logically possible', then he cannot be the most powerful thing in existence. Logic must be more powerful than God. And, we are left to wonder where logic comes from? Is God subject to the same dumb natural forces a secularist already believes are responsible for the universe, or is there a being even higher than God?

In either case, there's no justification for worshiping Yahweh. Either he doesn't exist, or he's merely the next step up from us in a virtually infinite hierarchy (all of which themselves would suffer from the infinite regress argument; why worship any of them, either?).
Find
Reply
pocaracas Offline
Posting Freak
*****
Religious Views: Non-believer
Posts: 19644
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation: 92
#63
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 7:20 pm
I'm still waiting for someone to say that they mistranslated something from aramaic, or hebrew, or greek, to "all-powerful". The original word meant something else. Wink

At best, god can't convey a message properly. This is a logical statement, confirmed by evidence.
Find
Reply
Cinjin Offline Donators
Member of the Decade
*****
Religious Views: Enlightened
Posts: 7031
Threads: 250
Joined: March 4, 2011
Reputation: 78
#64
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 8:33 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(January 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Right, and that is called imagination. Which is why it is a broken concept. No standards. Make shit up to suit one's own desires.
No, it's called logic. Find the flaw in my logic if you want, but you can't just reject my argument by calling it imagination.

Awe yes ... the ole Atheist Forums stand-by: "Nu-uh"

Tongue
[Image: Evolution.png]

Find
Reply
Lion IRC Offline
Member
***
Religious Views: Biblical theist
Posts: 1272
Threads: 3
Joined: July 29, 2012
Reputation: 7
#65
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm
God can do anything.
Find
Reply
Tea Earl Grey Hot Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Reason loves you!
Posts: 3226
Threads: 244
Joined: April 17, 2012
Reputation: 54
#66
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm (This post was last modified: January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he make himself not exist?
My ignore list




"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67211
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#67
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:14 pm
There's another one for you Tibs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
Minimalist Offline Donators
Go Blow Jesus Out Your Ass
*****
Religious Views: Fuck It
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation: 259
#68
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:21 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he create a rock he can't lift?

[Image: 9419_exhausted_woman_running_around_in_c...oncept.png]
Find
Reply
Lion IRC Offline
Member
***
Religious Views: Biblical theist
Posts: 1272
Threads: 3
Joined: July 29, 2012
Reputation: 7
#69
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:21 pm
(January 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:
(January 6, 2013 at 11:09 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God can do anything.

Can he make himself not exist?

Do you mean temporarily or permanently?
Find
Reply
Tea Earl Grey Hot Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Reason loves you!
Posts: 3226
Threads: 244
Joined: April 17, 2012
Reputation: 54
#70
RE: The rock God can't lift.
January 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm
We should rename this thread "Groundhog Day."
My ignore list




"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
The rock God can't lift.

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  What is the difference between me and a rock? Omni314 19 7181 June 17, 2012 at 5:49 am
Last Post: Tempus



Users browsing this thread: 7 Guest(s)