islamic forums

[Aractus]

I explained it very plainly to you and gave you a clear example, I don't know what more you want from me.

A "correct" translation of one language into another language may not fully convey all the meaning of the original language. It also doesn't take into account things like figures of speech which are impossible to literally translate and not loose meaning. All translations have to strike some kind of balance between stern literalism and conveying the original underlying meaning in the text. Even when you do this "correctly" it is not 100% perfect and complete because no one language reproduces perfectly the original and complete meaning conveyed in the other language.

So you can have situations where every translator will use the same word in English, yet they may have lost some of the original meaning in doing so - or they could have introduced something not present into the meaning of the English text.

[EGross]

Translation is an art, and sometimes translators need to use a different word to summerize a concept that the literal meaning may not convey. That is the art of a good translator. A bad one may try to be literal, but will insert extra words to exlpain things and only muddy it up worse. I recently watched "King of the Penguins" that had Hebrew subtitles. The translation was so bad that, as I read it, you would have thought there was a different story going on. Being bi-lingual, I finally gave up on the subtitles.

As for internet translations, there is a joke about Google Translate, that, in Hebrew, when it speaks of cooking or washing or cleaning, it uses female pronouns, and fun stuff, like swimming or playing, it uses male ones! Who made those decisions? I don't know.

And every translator has an agenda, the more loving will use those ideas, and the more domineering will use those. The best thing: learn the language and don't complain about the translations.

[paulpablo]

I explained it very plainly to you and gave you a clear example, I don't know what more you want from me.

A "correct" translation of one language into another language may not fully convey all the meaning of the original language. It also doesn't take into account things like figures of speech which are impossible to literally translate and not loose meaning. All translations have to strike some kind of balance between stern literalism and conveying the original underlying meaning in the text. Even when you do this "correctly" it is not 100% perfect and complete because no one language reproduces perfectly the original and complete meaning conveyed in the other language.

So you can have situations where every translator will use the same word in English, yet they may have lost some of the original meaning in doing so - or they could have introduced something not present into the meaning of the English text.

like i said i made my two points clear, I'm not claiming i know arabic so you're wrong to say I do, I'm judging from the translations from 5 different translations.
And as i also said it's strange how Judaism says 6 days, christianity says 6 days, Islam says 6 days, until islam apologetics is involved then it means 6 non specific periods of time.
And the mistake is repeated when talking about how long it takes to make the mountains, and how long it takes to measure sustenance on earth, as laughable as it is that god is measuring out sustenance like some sort of cosmic gardener.

[Aractus]

Translation is an art, and sometimes translators need to use a different word to summerize a concept that the literal meaning may not convey. That is the art of a good translator. A bad one may try to be literal, but will insert extra words to exlpain things and only muddy it up worse. I recently watched "King of the Penguins" that had Hebrew subtitles. The translation was so bad that, as I read it, you would have thought there was a different story going on. Being bi-lingual, I finally gave up on the subtitles.

As for internet translations, there is a joke about Google Translate, that, in Hebrew, when it speaks of cooking or washing or cleaning, it uses female pronouns, and fun stuff, like swimming or playing, it uses male ones! Who made those decisions? I don't know.

And every translator has an agenda, the more loving will use those ideas, and the more domineering will use those. The best thing: learn the language and don't complain about the translations.

^An equally good explination, if not better to mine.

[paulpablo]

And every translator has an agenda, the more loving will use those ideas, and the more domineering will use those. The best thing: learn the language and don't complain about the translations.

I'm not complaining about the translations but I don't want to learn arabic either, my point I'm making is how suspicious do the translations look, considering 4 out of 5 people take the meaning as days in that context, and also it's suspicious considering 6 days is in the torah 6 days is in the bible 6 days is in the quran until apologetics gets involved as i said.

The second point i would make about this is how it's suspicious god would create a book which can so easily be translated wrongly, god has the power to anything, he could right now as i speak have an angel come down and scream in my face "THE QURAN IS RIGHT PAUL, AND THE CORRECT TRANSLATION CAN BE FOUND ON THIS WEBSITE" or basically any number of ways an all powerful being can communicate to me.

[EGross]

You get that from Jewish scholars as well, who say a yom is a non-specific period of time, or even just a sound. But those are more apologists in the former case, and kabbalists (Christian influence) in the latter. You also have the literalists that are forced to deny anything more than 5773.5 years, since the thought to do otherwise would be unthinkable. (My wfe is willing to go as far as 6000 years). While the Reform Jewish movement is too embarassed by the whole book and makes it a parable.

I beleive that all religions have some embarassment to their holy books if they actually thought about it. They just lock those thoughts away as Satanic influences.

---

I'm not complaining about the translations but I don't want to learn arabic either, my point I'm making is how suspicious do the translations look, considering 4 out of 5 people take the meaning as days in that context, and also it's suspicious considering 6 days is in the torah 6 days is in the bible 6 days is in the quran until apologetics gets involved as i said.

Got it. Thanks.

[paulpablo]

But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless
nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran, chapter by
chapter, verse by verse, letter by letter and you will not find one single discrepancy!!!! Thus is the Quran protected. As Allah Says in the Holy Quran

"Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (the Qur'an), and indeed it is Us who shall preserve it" (Surah Al-Hijr 15:9).

This is a quote from an islamic forum talking about the quran being protected more so than the other holy books, he is saying if all the bibles and torahs were burned the jews and christians would not be able to reproduce them then goes on to say but we the muslims and so on.
Yet obviously the quran doesn't remain pure, I've already given just 1 example of how translating it has distorted the meaning of it already.

thus ,Allah has promised that he will protect our Quran , and he fulfilled his commitment.

How protected is it if even muslims don't know what it says within it.

[EGross]

Not just the illiterate ones? (the greater part of several Islamic countries).