Why cuts everywhere, regardless of budget, is lunacy

[KichigaiNeko]

Using those numbers^

Aus deficit: AUD$ 296 billion
Aus population: 22.6 million
296billion/22.6 million= AUD$ 13,097 per person

1 Aus dollar: 1.05 American.

Aus deficit (in american): $311 billion
Aus deficit per person (in american dollars): 13707.18

deficit and not debt? Must be debt, surely...

This is where it gets confusing Stu. I read deficit of GDP=Gross Debt, and think that the news articles I got those figures from think the same. I am no economist and according to world standards Aussie "Debt" is laughable low (I think we rated 12th spot globally) Can find the news article if you are interested ...

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Here we go...
http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/politi...2ctw9.html

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Figures from Barneby Joyce here...
http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/politi...2csoy.html

[Aractus]

Oh dear, I jus thought it was a typo, but no you're clearly confused.

It's OK though, I'm here to explain it anyway.

[KichigaiNeko]

Oh Daniel?? AND just how are you going to do this??

[Aractus]

Oh and forgot to add, that in addition to the 16.4 is more than 3.5 trillion USD in State/County debts that put the total USA public debt over 20 trillion USD.

[KichigaiNeko]

Oh and forgot to add, that in addition to the 16.4 is more than 3.5 trillion USD in State/County debts that put the total USA public debt over 20 trillion USD.

But I am not talking about the United states silly boy... Stu and I are talking about Australian debt.

[Aractus]

You're right, I really should run the ACTUAL numbers shouldn't I? They're actually much worse than I thought (for the USA).

Australian GDP (est.) AUD 1,374 Billion.
Australian Federal debt. AUD 263 Billion.

19% Debt to GDP (Federal only).

USA GDP (est.) 15.6 Trillion USD
USA Federal debt. 16.5 Trillion USD

106% Debt to GDP (Federal only).

As I said though, our federal government receives much higher tax revenues, so a direct comparison like this is irrelevant because the same amount of debt-to-gdp will necessarily take longer to pay off by the one who is receiving less of the GDP as their budget revenues (in this case the USA). In other words, we (Australians) would pay off 106% Federal-level debt to GDP much faster.

If you include state and local debts, then the total public debt in Australia jumps to about 30% of GDP. In many ways this figure is more relevant, but it’s rarely used when talking about public debt, especially so with the USA. It appears the USA’s total public debt is about 19.4 trillion USD (a little less than the 20 I’ve been quoting ), thus total public US debt is 124%. What makes the USA’s debt much worse is the unfunded public liabilities. Here is a good article explaining it. --->

[jonb]

@Aractus

5.2 is the difference, per American to individual Australian in the amount of debt owed by each individual of those countries on your figures. So yes there is a difference, but the American economy is built on industry and services, so there is no reason why that cannot continue, However the Australian economy is based on the selling of finite resources, so which has the long term future is questionable at best.
Next we should consider that the raw materials market is thriving, as such; why is Australia building up any debt at all?
Next we should consider the relative importance in world terms of the two economies, Australia is a small economy in world terms, and as such has very little power to protect itself. This is not an anti Australian statement, just a fact. You know this, and the evidence is in your history, would Britain have sold Australia down the river so many times, if Australia was of significant financial importance?
On the other hand even if America suffers a truly shocking financial collapse she will still be a very important market. So maybe in the short term you can live in your 'little englander' world where nobody is as good as you. and delude yourself that you can pay your debts, but those silly Americans can't, but when we study the situation in context your position falls apart.

But I suppose I should expect this from an Angliatun, who believe god made all men, and us better than all the others.

[KichigaiNeko]

Thank you jonb. This is my point entirely! While yes Australia has an almost laughable debt per capita we also have a minuscule population and the majority of our manufacturing is outsourced to south East Asia. Once the resources run out there is nothing to fill the gap for all the rhetoric of the current government. Like our shadow treasurer, I have sleepless nights about our economy.

Not to say that America (USoA) can't reign in it's expenditure on say military R&D.

[Darth]

Next we should consider that the raw materials market is thriving, as such; why is Australia building up any debt at all?

We elected the labor* party. A block voting, union controlled, spendthrift party of backstabbing (before you roll your eyes at a union control 'conspiracy theory', at least 50% of their seats are given to union members according to their own rules, which of course gives them immense power (the pm was a union lawyer), it's literally a union controlled party who vote as one (I was a member at 18, I'm ashamed to say)) who feel it's appropriate to make the lead singer of the Midnight Oils the minister of environment, and then education.

This guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pKPNnk-JhE



Part of the problem imo was that the Liberal party, by one vote, chose to field Tony 'mad monk' Abbot (who's last name tells you all you need to know about him) rather than Malcolm Turnbull (self described libertarian, though very very moderate, he's no Ron Paul). Tony couldn't get the youth vote if he paid them, which only the labor party is offering to do .

*note the unaustralian spelling of the word

[KichigaiNeko]

Actually we didn't vote for the Labor party Stu. I think the count was that the Liberal won the vote count but like Labor didn't have enough to form government.... hence the Independents and their pseudo rise to "power" ...yeah ... fat lot of good that did them. If it wasn't for the Greens and their communistic ways Labor wouldn't have stood a chance..they scrapped in on the popularity of KRudd and Gizzard.