When do you plan to Convert to Christanity?

[Question Mark]

No, but I wouldn't tell you that is not what you see and believe. Whether physically manifested or not, your dreams, visions and beliefs are real.

If I told you that your eyesight was all an hallucination, would you believe me?
.

I would ask for proof that everything I saw was an illusion, and if you couldn't, I would ask if you're a postmodernist or a solipsist.

I'm not telling you not to believe in your god if you have had some sort of experience, or something of that sort. I can't say whether or not you have. But without evidence, I can't have that same belief, and when people try to go around and impose those beliefs and morals they get from those beliefs on me without said evidence, it makes me and most other people rather indignant.

[Brian37]

Then explain to me how the existence of God would require his intervention?

I have logic. When you can prove the cause of the big bang, the start of life, and your inability to reconcile that cognitive dissonance, then perhaps I'll believe you have logic too.
.

See if you can spot the pattern.

"Then explain to me how the existence of Thor would require his intervention"
"Then explain to me how the existence of Allah would require his intervention"
"Then explain to me how the existence of Ra would require his intervention".

Simple, make shit up and pull it out of your ass. Anything works if you really twist your brain enough.

"I am married to Agnetha from ABBA, it is true because you cant prove it is not". See, I can pull crap out of my ass too.

[catfish]

Then explain to me how the existence of God would require his intervention?

I have logic. When you can prove the cause of the big bang, the start of life, and your inability to reconcile that cognitive dissonance, then perhaps I'll believe you have logic too.
.

See if you can spot the pattern.

"Then explain to me how the existence of Thor would require his intervention"
"Then explain to me how the existence of Allah would require his intervention"
"Then explain to me how the existence of Ra would require his intervention".

Simple, make shit up and pull it out of your ass. Anything works if you really twist your brain enough.

"I am married to Agnetha from ABBA, it is true because you cant prove it is not". See, I can pull crap out of my ass too.

Dude, seriously??? Your lame repetitive "see if you can spot the pattern" crap is fucking bullshit!
I'm not debating the existence of god, I'm debating facts in the Bible. If you still can't recognise that then you're delusional, PERIOD.
I see the pattern, I see the indignance, I see the stupidity...

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I WRITE AND NOT WHAT YOU IMAGINE!!! How fucking hard is it for you to see that pattern? It's not like I haven't said it enough.
.

---

No, but I wouldn't tell you that is not what you see and believe. Whether physically manifested or not, your dreams, visions and beliefs are real.

If I told you that your eyesight was all an hallucination, would you believe me?
.

I would ask for proof that everything I saw was an illusion, and if you couldn't, I would ask if you're a postmodernist or a solipsist.

I'm not telling you not to believe in your god if you have had some sort of experience, or something of that sort. I can't say whether or not you have. But without evidence, I can't have that same belief, and when people try to go around and impose those beliefs and morals they get from those beliefs on me without said evidence, it makes me and most other people rather indignant.

I don't want anyone to have the same beliefs as me, or else I wouldn't be unique..

Before I could convince you that you hallucinate, I would need to know if you believe that something could be a percentage of true or not. I.E. is everything black and white?
Can the Bible (if God exists), be 50% true or does one one falsity in it make it completely false? (you may see where I'm going with this)
.

[Question Mark]

Well fair enough, if you don't want to impose your beliefs, morality, or values on anyone else, that's all well and good, but I would ask, and I'm not trying to be aggressive here, but I would ask what the reasoning is behind coming onto a forum. I come here under the impression that people wish to provide their beliefs and either try to change other people's beliefs or have their own influenced. I can't see much other reason.

Unfortunately I don't believe the truth of something is able to be expressed as a percentage, because the reality of something is that it's there, or it's not, but it is only one of those two things, either 100% there, or 100% not there. With no evidence or indication either way, nothing can be posited as to whether or not it exists, so to say that there's a 50-50 chance either way is somewhat of a fallacy. The thing, whatever it is, until someone can provide evidence one way or the other, lacks substance to debate about even if we can conceive of it. For instance, unicorns might exist, you could argue that there's a 50-50 split chance of it, but there's no evidence one way or another, so there's nothing to make up either of those 50's, if you see what I mean.

But if you had an extended point that I haven't grasped, please do elaborate, and I shall be happy to give it consideration.

[Brian37]

What's the matter? If your logic works in a universal way then you should be able to apply it to any and all god claims. The reason you are having your childish kneejerk reaction to my "see if you can spot the pattern" is because of a little thing called "cognitive dissonance".

You have no evidence, no one has any evidence, for any invisible friend. PERIOD. People like the idea of super heros so they make them up because mundane reality isn't as sexy as the placebo they concoct.

You drank the Kool Aid, not because you have facts, but because you like the idea of having a super hero. You look for excuses to cling to your superstition. So does anyone who claims any invisible friend. Your are not special and your pet deity claim isn't either.

[catfish]

But if you had an extended point that I haven't grasped, please do elaborate, and I shall be happy to give it consideration.

It is a well know "fact" (I use that term by scientific concensus) that everyone has dead spots in their vision. It is also a well known "fact" that the brain fills in those dead spaces so that you don't see the effect.
So, in a black and white world where things are either true or not, all of your visions would be considered hallucinations as the mental image you perceive is not 100% accurate.
.

---

Well fair enough, if you don't want to impose your beliefs, morality, or values on anyone else, that's all well and good, but I would ask, and I'm not trying to be aggressive here, but I would ask what the reasoning is behind coming onto a forum. I come here under the impression that people wish to provide their beliefs and either try to change other people's beliefs or have their own influenced. I can't see much other reason.

The reason I'm here is not to impose my beliefs, but to stop the imposition of other's beliefs. I'm a dick that way... lol
.

[Question Mark]

But if you had an extended point that I haven't grasped, please do elaborate, and I shall be happy to give it consideration.

It is a well know "fact" (I use that term by scientific concesus) that everyone has dead spots in their vision. It is also a well known "fact" that the brain fills in those dead spaces so that you don't see the effect.
So, in a black and white world where things are either true or not, all of your visions would be considered hallucinations as the mental image you perceive is not 100% accurate.
.

Well a hallucination would be when the brain is doing this incorrectly because of some adverse effect, certainly, but I wouldn't say I'm hallucinating when no adverse effects are present. My vision has proven itself reliable to determining my surroundings for the vast majority of my life when I haven't had some detrimental illness or medicine inhibiting my brain's functions.
In order for you to prove that I was hallucinating, you'd have to either prove that the reality around me is not as I perceive it, or that I am indeed under the effects of some hallucinogen or illness, and give me evidence of that effect.

[Brian37]

But if you had an extended point that I haven't grasped, please do elaborate, and I shall be happy to give it consideration.

It is a well know "fact" (I use that term by scientific concensus) that everyone has dead spots in their vision. It is also a well known "fact" that the brain fills in those dead spaces so that you don't see the effect.
So, in a black and white world where things are either true or not, all of your visions would be considered hallucinations as the mental image you perceive is not 100% accurate.
.

So if we can fill in the gap over non deity stuff buy guessing with false perceptions, why wouldn't that flaw also extend to claims of invisible friends?

The same reason you fool yourself in thinking a god is possible is just as mental a mistake if you go to a Holloween party and really want to believe that coverd bowl of olives in that dark room are really eyeballs. If you want to believe bullshit bad enough you will.

[catfish]

Well a hallucination would be when the brain is doing this incorrectly because of some adverse effect, certainly, but I wouldn't say I'm hallucinating when no adverse effects are present. My vision has proven itself reliable to determining my surroundings for the vast majority of my life when I haven't had some detrimental illness or medicine inhibiting my brain's functions.
In order for you to prove that I was hallucinating, you'd have to either prove that the reality around me is not as I perceive it, or that I am indeed under the effects of some hallucinogen or illness, and give me evidence of that effect.

From the wiki: (bolded by me)
"A hallucination, in the broadest sense of the word, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus. In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space"

Which ever you choose, all visual perceptions should be technically considered an hallucination. But I see that you allow exceptions to the rule in that you have "faith" that they're accurate. Am I correct?
.

[Question Mark]

No, I don't have "faith" in anything. Stimulus, in terms of sight, means the presence of light reflecting off of objects and into the eye. I do not take it on faitht hat there is light present when I see things, I use my other senses at the same time to determine whether what I'm seeing is accurate.

For instance, one time some years ago, my car lit on fire. I looked at the car, and I saw blackness leeching across the paintwork, which alone would be evidence of fire, but I couldn't see the fire. Instead of opening the hood to see if there was fire, which would have been bad since the fire would have been exposed to air and hit me int he face, I heard the sounds of fire, could smell plastic and metal melting, and could feel the heat coming from the car.

I didn't take it on faith that thew car was on fire just because what I saw wasn't conclusive, you see what I mean? Truth is determined in science by multiple points of evidence converging on the same answer.


But anyway, did you have a point this was leading to?