free will paradox

[Mystical]

Hello again missluckie74. I can't quite believe your credentials with you being so ignorant of the meaning of those simple verses. Can't quite, but actually do, having turned my back on it myself once. You won't see what you don't want to see. that's often why freethinking is such a laughable claim when people are in such a state.

Hiya Fr0d0. I don't believe you can be a believer without it affecting every decision in your life. As sane and rational your conversations with others of your religion might be: when it comes down to it, you believe some pretty unbelievable stuff which is impossible to quarantine from the rest of your life. You live your life, by it. Every way you look, you see what it dictates that you see. It's easy to go to church and be with a bunch of other people, and project what you believe on them. Don't believe me? Just put out an anonymous questionnaire. I'll help you make it.

1. Do you believe in hell? yes, no, hell isn't really a lake of fire kinda hell, or god has to be saving people from hell to be the god I know and worship
2. Do you believe the second coming of Christ will happen in your lifetime?
3. Do you believe in a Holy war which will not end until Christ returns?

If you believe in there being a hell that can quantitatively torment Hitler for the blood on his hands: then you also believe that I am going to hell. For nothing other than rejecting god. That in itself, is messed up.

And you're wrong, I can see still what it is you see. It's just that I can see too, what you refuse to see--or what you overlook in your belief that god is the allmighty and powerful and just god.

Let's start with just. god being just. You brought up that verse about him being just.
In the bible it states in gods own words that children and babies and mentally defectives are innocent.
Then god orders babies slashed from the mothers' wombs on grounds that their parents were morally bankrupt.
In the new testament it says god does not change. So just because jesus died on the cross does not mean that the god of the OT is any
different now than he was before. Revelations pretty much cements that too.

Also, whats with the name change, again? Is there some secret joke you have going with yourself about my name again?

[fr0d0]

Why shouldn't my world view dictate my thinking lol?

You're confirming what I said above. You have no understanding of what you supposedly believed for what was it, 20 years?

[Esquilax]

Why shouldn't my world view dictate my thinking lol?

You're confirming what I said above. You have no understanding of what you supposedly believed for what was it, 20 years?

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that nobody understands the bible. They're all just making it match the things already in their minds.

[Ryantology]

All one has to do is converse with the Christians on this board to know the truth of that statement.

A book which means whatever you want it to mean doesn't mean anything.

[Severan]

Does the fact that you didn't choose to have a brain mean you don't have a brain?

[Darkstar]

Does the fact that you didn't choose to have a brain mean you don't have a brain?

Well if you mean that metaphorically...

[justin]

Does the fact that you didn't choose to have a brain mean you don't have a brain?

Brain isn't a concept it is a organ....
free will is a product of thought that seems more complex than a organ.
I see what you were trying to get at but i don't that is the same thing.

[Severan]

True, true...

[Mystical]

Why shouldn't my world view dictate my thinking lol?

You're confirming what I said above. You have no understanding of what you supposedly believed for what was it, 20 years?

Not a real response to my post, please re-respond.

[fr0d0]

Let me break it down for you.

Hiya Fr0d0. I don't believe you can be a believer without it affecting every decision in your life. As sane and rational your conversations with others of your religion might be: when it comes down to it, you believe some pretty unbelievable stuff which is impossible to quarantine from the rest of your life. You live your life, by it. Every way you look, you see what it dictates that you see. It's easy to go to church and be with a bunch of other people, and project what you believe on them. Don't believe me?

Of course it affects all of a believers life. It underpin our thinking and our actions. It's pretty unbelievable to you yes, because you don't understand why. I know why I believe. I understand the reasoning I followed to adopt the belief.

I don't need you to convince me of that. You seem to be saying the same as me, but then try to convince me of it. I don't need to prove it... I live and breathe it and know my fellow Christians do too.

Just put out an anonymous questionnaire. I'll help you make it.

1. Do you believe in hell? yes, no, hell isn't really a lake of fire kinda hell, or god has to be saving people from hell to be the god I know and worship
2. Do you believe the second coming of Christ will happen in your lifetime?
3. Do you believe in a Holy war which will not end until Christ returns?

1. God isn't soft. God's justice is real... or there is no fairness in the world and hopelessness prevails. Victorian ideas of hell fire are of that era. Preaching hate is anti Christ. I know there are such christians around today that do this.
2. No. Why should it concern me when?
3. Yeah we're living it.

If you believe in there being a hell that can quantitatively torment Hitler for the blood on his hands: then you also believe that I am going to hell. For nothing other than rejecting god. That in itself, is messed up.

No it isn't. You can and do (just like any human) put yourself through hell most days. This is you pulling yourself apart from God and his desire for you to be fulfilled and happy. Part of that hell is you unable to forgive where God can forgive anything. What I and Christians believe that you can't, is that justice prevails. Hitler (/insert person with a lot of bad acts to forgive here) will pay his dues just like anyone else. We believe in a posthumous judge where you're limited to the injustice of life served out in a persons lifetime. Hitler might have pretty much got away with it, and many people might feel that justice wasn't served.

So what is messed up? Ickle you who just rejects good and chooses to be good and bad, and gets off scott free just like Hitler who was pretty twisted and did some horendous stuff? This is your reality. Pretty dire isn't it?

And you're wrong, I can see still what it is you see.

Everything you say is evidence of the opposite.

It's just that I can see too, what you refuse to see--or what you overlook in your belief that god is the allmighty and powerful and just god.

And what is that exactly? You agree with bastardisation of the text that support your bias?

Let's start with just. god being just. You brought up that verse about him being just.
In the bible it states in gods own words that children and babies and mentally defectives are innocent.
Then god orders babies slashed from the mothers' wombs on grounds that their parents were morally bankrupt. (1)
In the new testament it says god does not change. So just because jesus died on the cross does not mean that the god of the OT is any
different now than he was before. Revelations pretty much cements that too. (2)

1. false assumption on your part there.
"Innocent like children" does not equal "all children are innocent".
Only a being capable of knowing the future could know if a child, or all of a persons decendants, turns out to be unforgivably (sic) evil right?

2. Jesus existed before time as God according to John. The divine revelation was acted out as it was destined to. Amid that process God appeared differently, but all the time God was unchanging.