Pascal's Wager (the new version)

[Something completely different]

But as we have the original copy (we have about 5 copies not only one) from Quran (written about 20 years after the prophet) then option 1 is wrong


so either Quran is true from God or flawed by Mohamed, but anyway it is genuine

Wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKl0gA35HaE

[EGross]

Beware! To claim that you can prove that all other religions are false...I went down that road.

I ended up saying "Oh yeah. Right. That works on mine as well."

[Ryantology]

Unless he knows it from a trusted source

How does one trust an unknowable source?

It isn't beyond our knowledge and it can be proved

Then, it can be disproved as well.

[Mister Agenda]

Surely the value of a person's life must be considered in its entirety?

Then it has no value at all, you will be dead so your life worth nothing (if there is no God)

It's worth something to me, and to some other folks. That I'll be dead in the future doesn't mean my life has no value now, or that after I die it won't have had value, or even that it won't continue to have value after I die thanks to whatever legacy I leave. If there's no God, it means there's one less person to value my life, not that it has no value at all.

---

It is an argument (based on statistics), you can accept or reject it

Anyway I'm just preparing you for a full proof of God existence

Which is as close as anyone ever gets to offering a full proof of God's existence. You guys are always preparing us for the proof, but you never deliver it.

---

It is very obvious, as you cannot prove the non-existence of God!

I cannot prove you didn't have a dragon that leaves no evidence under your bed last Tuesday, either.

[Cyberman]

You guys are always preparing us for the proof, but you never deliver it.

The next stage is for MS to claim that we're not ready for this proof, or that it'll be wasted on unbelievers since we'll reject it out of hand. If he's playing a (slightly) higher level game, he'll throw the "you need faith to understand my proof" card.

[Mister Agenda]

If there is no God
When you die, you don't exist period

Not anymore, but I DID exist.

So what you did and how was your life, doesn't make any value
as you don't remember or feel about it!

The world doesn't revolve around me remembering and feeling things. Other people can do that after I'm gone. When they're gone, the consequences of my actions and inactions will still affect what happens in the future for many generations. And when the universe is a thin soup of photons, nothing I did will matter, but you know what REALLY doesn't matter to me? Not being remembered by anybody in a trillion years. I couldn't possibly care less.

Are books and movies valueless because you can't experience them forever? Does a nice meal have no value because in a year you'll probably have forgotten all about it? Part of the value of a thing is its rarity. Things we have plenty of are not as valued as things we don't have enough of. The one thing that could make my life valueless and pointless would be for it to never end, just a story that goes on and on forever, never reaching a climax or resolution. Who treats life as if it's more precious: someone who thinks they've got plenty left or someone who finds out they've got much less left than they thought?

---

As many humans believe in God, his probability (for another human) should be >0

The probability of something isn't affected by the number of people who believe it. Are you sure it does? Bear in mind that there are more Christians than Muslims.

How come?
If your life (for you) worth 10 Million Dollars (Usually people value their lives with money, happiness, etc.)
Then 1 year of live will worth 10/Age
and as your remaining time is reducing by time, so is the value of your life

Let me give you an example
You have cancer and Doctors are saying that you are going to die in few days, a Priest came to you and said: just say I believe in JESUS, you will go to Paradise!

Even though that I know for sure that Christianity is false, what will you do?

Try to get as much accomplishment and happiness as I can in, in the time remaining to me. How much do you suppose one more year would be worth to me?

[EGross]

The argument seems to be an emotional one: since I don't like the idea that I will cease to exist, I refuse to accept it.

It is a childish argument, really, that reality should be based on our fellings. (I remember being devistated as a kid whem my mom finally admitted that there was no such thing as unicorns, and I refused to believe her for days. It wasn't fair!). There is another thread based on this that turned ugly because there are also non-believers who hold onto that fiction as well (he feels like a girl, so he is a girl).

The Koran feels true to the believer, and a believer has an emotional identity connection with a faith that he or she has invested so much with. We trust our parents, our neighbors, our community, our religious leaders, and so we feel that we are right. But in reality, feelings do not make it so.

We feels that our faith is the right faith, and all non-believers will damn well suffer for their lack of belief. That is at the core of a great many religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Mormanism, and probably others that I have no familiarity with). It makes us feel special, better, unique, chosen. And to be born into the right faith, well, it doesn't get better than that! Such egotism. Such smugness! That the Infinite has a special interest, out of the 100 billion galaxies, in a handful (relatively speaking) of humans, spoke to even fewer of them that nobody alive has ever met, gave only them special instructions that are sometimes sadistic, and then shut up and is sitting back with Its arms crossed watching the show, waiting for souls so He can reward or give eternal damnation.

Alas, I had to give up on believing in unicorns. And a part of me wishes that they and their mythology were true.

But my feelings about it changes nothing in reality.

[pocaracas]

Anyway I'm just preparing you for a full proof of God existence

I've been waiting for that "full proof" of yours for almost a week now...

Almost another week gone by and still nothing...

[Brian37]

Hi all,

Let's start with a new old topic
Pascal's Wager

I"ll put the statement which I'm trying to prove first

Atheism is a very weak position to take, (Anything is better than nothing)

P(G) is the probability of God existence (which is >0 unless you can prove that God doesn't exist)

V the value of your life
P(V) the probability of your death

P(G)/(P(V)xV) will go to infinity as your life is coming to an end
But as you don't know when are you going to die, you should embrace a religion NOW!

This is funny, you are trying to turn a debunked piece of antiquated poo into a math formula. You can re dress the skunk in a different color tux all you want but it is still a skunk.

It still amounts, as others in this thread have said, to "covering your ass out of fear". Why would you subject yourself to someone out of fear just to be safe?

[KichigaiNeko]

Like ALL the others iSlam has no more "proof" than a snake oil sales mand in Medina.

What a joke!