Is the Christian God fair?

[John V]

Well he can be fair by being graceful to non-believers too.

Yep. He chooses whom he chooses.

In this sense, he is isn't implementing justice (you won't go to hell),

Which is unfair.

but he isn't being unfair to others (they won't go to hell when they have done more praiseworthy things then you).

As noted, salvation is an act of grace and mercy, and grace and mercy are unmerited. So, it's illogical to base them on merit, i.e. praiseworthy things done.

The problem with showing you it's wrong of God, is that morals are often reduced to properly basic intuitions or beliefs or knowledge.

You haven't shown it's wrong. I have no problem with people who show grace and mercy to some, but not all. Unfair does not equal wrong.

Furthermore, not only is it unfair, it's cruel.

How so?

[festive1]

I got nothing to add to the thread… Just wanted to say Welcome Back, Mystic!

[Mystic]

I got nothing to add to the thread… Just wanted to say Welcome Back, Mystic!

Thanks a lot.

[CleanShavenJesus]

Any moment now, CSJ, one of them will come along and insist that if you read it in the original arabic and hold it upside down those sections you read about killing infidels are really about petting puppies and kittens.

Or to read it in context.

I'd like to read the first one in context.

[Mystic]

Or to read it in context.

I'd like to read the first one in context.

I'll make a thread on this subject. I am ex-Muslim so I have no interest in defending Quran, other then for integrity.

[Minimalist]

Being saved myself I rejoice in that

Pompous twat, aren't you?

Remember. You are only saved if every bit of your fucking fairy tales is absolutely true.

I put the odds against that as something on the far side of astronomical.

[xXUKAtheistForTheTruthXx]

Don't even think he exists

[Drich]

I would post this on Christianforums.com were it not for my fear that I would get banned. I've been get warnings and infractions every time I post something that challenges Christianity. Apparently it's part of the rules of the site that I don't post such things.

I've been a member of that site for about 5 years, and i agree that site does limit the subjects that can be discussed and the depth and content that approved subjects can go. It seems that CF is a site that focuses on to light to intermediate discussions that favor christianity. i did not like this because it limits the depth of eploration one can undertake. This type of one sided discussion is not limited to Christianity or christian websites. the .com version of this site does not welcome a proper reperentaton of christianity either. they have a specific view of christianity, and do not welcome anyone who does not repersent the view of christianity that they have.

That is why the majority of my efforts are focused here. this maybe an Atheist forum in name, but it is truly an open forum.

The basic problem I find is the following.

A non-Christian can be more praiseworthy then a Christian in most actions and spirit and some beliefs.

consider the source. 'praise worthyness' is subjective. i use oscar Schindler lot of times as an example of thhis. was herolded as a hero, and to a degree he was. But, more over he was a war profiteer, who made millions off of the death and destruction of millions, he was a card carring member of the Nazi party, who employed slave labor and literally worked people to death. but because his 'good deeds' out weighed the bad he was deemed a 'good' person, and some even considered him a hero. whether he was or not is not what we are discussing.
what i am pointingout is how the way this world works is if your good far outweighs you bad your considered good. The problem with this system of morality and judgement is, that one does not truly have to be good to be considered good. All one must do is simply be better than what the popular soceity says good actually is.
which in a 'moral soceity' that line can be blurred alot easier than in a place like hitler's Germany.

An example of beliefs is that a non-Christian can believe we ought to not do slavery while a Christian can believe we ought to do it, and that it's endorse by the Bible per his interpretation.

Do you have book chapter and verse of christian sponsered slavery?

A Christian doesn't become immune to bad actions. [\quote]
absolutly not. "good deeds" do not make a christian a christian.

[quote]Now why is a Christian saved and non-Christian not saved?

attonement. the sins of the saved have been forgiven. only because we have asked God to forgive our sins.

It's essentially that the latter has not believed in Christianity while a Christian has.

more or less.

When asked why does God punish, it's stated it's because of justice. And when asked why does God then save some from his wrath, it's because of his grace.

Why does God punish? I would say the viewing what God did as punishment is just a matter of perspective. I see the 'punishment' as nothing more than consenquence. we are told the wages of sin is death. That means all who sin by the natural consenquence will endure the second death/hell/eternal seperation. God offers redemption, or rather God offers an oppertunity for us not to die a secoond time. if we choose to then God will hold us to our choice, and will not drag us into heaven kicking and screaming.

Then God is being choosy. This would be somewhat justified if his choice was based on the merits and actions of the person.

ah, no.

Furthermore, there seems to be a another problem, in that many Christians will believe out of confirmation bias or simply being born into the religion. Many Christians have not read the Bible.

maybe that is the problem. for the bible tells us we can not inherit our father's beliefs.

Can it really be said that all there faith has been out of love of the light or guidance by the holy spirit? [\quote] i depends on who you are talking about and what you have identified as 'faitth.'

[quote]Is it not rational to conclude that Christians believe in their religion for similar reasons other people of other religions believe in their religion, and this irrespective if it's a true religion or not.

it is ALWAYS Irrational to speak in Absolutes, when speaking of groups of people.

[Fruity]

The Christian god is nowhere near fair. If I was born in a family with any other religion and brainwashed their way, I'd be doomed, unless I was lucky to meet someone who brainwashed me otherwise. I found out just how unfair he was by reading the Bible.

[Drich]

The Christian god is nowhere near fair. If I was born in a family with any other religion and brainwashed their way, I'd be doomed, unless I was lucky to meet someone who brainwashed me otherwise. I found out just how unfair he was by reading the Bible.

Who says?

Are you of the opinion that "Christians" will be the only people/souls found in Heaven?

Do you have any special insight or biblical passage that makes you think this? If so let's look at your Book Chapter and Verse together.