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Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 5, 2013 at 11:57 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2013 at 12:06 am by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
Scholars have been able to come up with a pluasuble reconstruction of how spoken English sounded around 1600 based on a study of early books written on pronunciation and a study of texts. It sound very different from modern English. It has opened way to a greater understanding of English literature.
The parallels between this and historically informed musical performance are stricking (they overlap too in historically informed singing).
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 6, 2013 at 12:09 am
Awsome!
Love stuff like this!!!!
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 6, 2013 at 12:18 am
(March 6, 2013 at 12:09 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: Awsome!
Love stuff like this!!!!
You might find this post I made before you joined interesting then:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-12825.html
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 6, 2013 at 3:55 pm
One of the most prized writers of English history, and his work is riddled with fart jokes, dick jokes, sodomy jokes, etc. Love Shakespeare.
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm
(March 5, 2013 at 11:57 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Scholars have been able to come up with a pluasuble reconstruction of how spoken English sounded around 1600 based on a study of early books written on pronunciation and a study of texts. It sound very different from modern English. It has opened way to a greater understanding of English literature.
The parallels between this and historically informed musical performance are stricking (they overlap too in historically informed singing).
I get how the sources might suggest pronunciation, but where on Earth did those accents come from?
I'm not convinced.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 7, 2013 at 6:26 am
(March 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm)ManMachine Wrote: (March 5, 2013 at 11:57 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Scholars have been able to come up with a pluasuble reconstruction of how spoken English sounded around 1600 based on a study of early books written on pronunciation and a study of texts. It sound very different from modern English. It has opened way to a greater understanding of English literature.
The parallels between this and historically informed musical performance are stricking (they overlap too in historically informed singing).
I get how the sources might suggest pronunciation, but where on Earth did those accents come from?
I'm not convinced.
MM
We have writings from the period which shows us how words were being pronounced Also there are verses in Shakespeare's works which don't rhyme in modern pronunciation, however they do in the pronunciation which has been figured out.
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 7, 2013 at 7:48 am
(March 7, 2013 at 6:26 am)Justtristo Wrote: (March 6, 2013 at 6:31 pm)ManMachine Wrote: I get how the sources might suggest pronunciation, but where on Earth did those accents come from?
I'm not convinced.
MM
We have writings from the period which shows us how words were being pronounced Also there are verses in Shakespeare's works which don't rhyme in modern pronunciation, however they do in the pronunciation which has been figured out.
I understand what is being said about the research into pronunciation of individual words but most of the linguistic tools we use today to analyse this information were developed post-Elizabethan times.
Individual words aside, putting words together in longer phrases has an effect on how they are sounded, are we really so sure of the the overall phonetic structure and sentence phrasing that gives us accent or are we stringing individual sounded words together, because the latter is not accent. I remain unconvinced.
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 7, 2013 at 9:15 am
That's all very nice but can we have this original stuff in surround sound?
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm
(March 7, 2013 at 7:48 am)ManMachine Wrote: (March 7, 2013 at 6:26 am)Justtristo Wrote: We have writings from the period which shows us how words were being pronounced Also there are verses in Shakespeare's works which don't rhyme in modern pronunciation, however they do in the pronunciation which has been figured out.
I understand what is being said about the research into pronunciation of individual words but most of the linguistic tools we use today to analyse this information were developed post-Elizabethan times.
Individual words aside, putting words together in longer phrases has an effect on how they are sounded, are we really so sure of the the overall phonetic structure and sentence phrasing that gives us accent or are we stringing individual sounded words together, because the latter is not accent. I remain unconvinced.
I can't answer those questions until I read the research for myself.
If it's anything like historical musicology research, there are probably things we can know pretty much for certain about speech back then and then there are things we can only make our best educated guesses on.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Shakespeare in original pronunciation
March 7, 2013 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2013 at 4:54 pm by Justtristo.)
(March 7, 2013 at 7:48 am)ManMachine Wrote: (March 7, 2013 at 6:26 am)Justtristo Wrote: We have writings from the period which shows us how words were being pronounced Also there are verses in Shakespeare's works which don't rhyme in modern pronunciation, however they do in the pronunciation which has been figured out.
I understand what is being said about the research into pronunciation of individual words but most of the linguistic tools we use today to analyse this information were developed post-Elizabethan times.
Individual words aside, putting words together in longer phrases has an effect on how they are sounded, are we really so sure of the the overall phonetic structure and sentence phrasing that gives us accent or are we stringing individual sounded words together, because the latter is not accent. I remain unconvinced.
Well it is more appropriate to think of these attempts as for instance what the original pronunciation of Shakespeare's plays as reconstructions.
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