Prove Christianity, not Theism in General

[Godscreated]

The proof of Christianity is in God, not in some arguement. Maybe that is why none of you have found Him.

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Actually - gods are easily found

THEY are fictional beings made up by humans to include in their ancient religious myths and legends

WE know exactly where to find them - in religious "scripture"(fairy tales) written 1000 plus years ago - when they thought the earth was flat - and it was the center of the Universe - and everything revolved around the earth. Obviously FAIRY TALES.

They are as real as James Bond and Harry Potter - and James Bond has saved mankind from doom and destruction MORE OFTEN than most of them.

Drich is correct in what he says here, to many people try to find the truth of God outside of Him and you can not. This is what Jesus meant when He said in Matt. 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished". This statement has nothing to do with the way the Law is written down, it means that the word of God is unchanging no matter what man wants to make of it.
ThomM, if you were to actually read the Bible you would see that scriptures speak of a round earth.

[Esquilax]

ThomM, if you were to actually read the Bible you would see that scriptures speak of a round earth.

No, they speak of a circular earth. Circles are still flat.

And even if you're willing to be charitable and say that the "circle of the earth" mentioned in the scriptures is indeed referring to a sphere and not a circle, so what?

[Godscreated]

ThomM, if you were to actually read the Bible you would see that scriptures speak of a round earth.

No, they speak of a circular earth. Circles are still flat.

And even if you're willing to be charitable and say that the "circle of the earth" mentioned in the scriptures is indeed referring to a sphere and not a circle, so what?

Means nonbelievers need to drop the subject and find something worthwhile for their lives.
Do you really believe that after watching the moon go through it's waxing and waning that they would believe it was flat.

[Esquilax]

Means nonbelievers need to drop the subject and find something worthwhile for their lives.

Oh, come now. You don't need to betray your lack of an argument with ad hom attacks, GC. We already know you've got nothing.

Besides, I gain great pleasure from argumentation.

Do you really believe that after watching the moon go through it's waxing and waning that they would believe it was flat.

Yep. Given that it's what they've written down. I mean, there's a part where Satan takes Jesus up to the top of a mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of the earth, so...

And actually, I don't really care what they believed, because it wouldn't matter anyway. The ancient greeks knew the earth was round long before the bible was even written, and they figured it out from watching ships dip over the horizon. It's cool, but you don't really need a god to figure it out. Seems funny, then, that the dudes writing the bible kept making statements of a decidedly two dimensional nature.

Also, I like that you made this argument apropos of nothing; what does it matter what I believe about some ancient prophets thoughts about the moon waxing and waning? It matters what they thought, and happily they wrote it all down.

[smax]

Means nonbelievers need to drop the subject and find something worthwhile for their lives.

Speaking for myself, I believe that I should spend at least a small portion of time trying to persuade people to use reason and logic, and to take an active interest in helping human kind.

Why, you wonder?

Because I'm human and I want to the human race to succeed and prosper.

With that, I would be doing you, many of your fellow believers, and indeed the surrounding world in general, a great injustice by being selfish and complacent about your ignorance and delusions. These attributes are potentially dangerous and often create a wide variety of social obstacles.

Now let's talk bout the shape and dimensions of the earth:

Do you really believe that after watching the moon go through it's waxing and waning that they would believe it was flat.

Having read more than one version of the bible from cover to cover, and having done expositional, and even exegetical studies of all of the important books of the bible, I can tell you that the bible does not have a consistent position of the shape of the earth. One thing is clear and consistent, however, and that is that the bible describes a flat earth.

Two bible versus are typically referenced by christian apologists to demonstrate that the bible teaches a spherical earth suspended in space. They are:

Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:7. Ironically, these same books of the bible perfectly expose the opposite teaching.

First, let's look at the part of Is 40:22 that indicates a round earth:

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...

The key word here is obviously circle (or kuhg in Hebrew), and many biblical scholars (christian based) argue that the word makes reference to a sphere.

The problem is, there is another Hebrew word for a sphere (or ball), and it's used in Isaiah 22:18, which has nothing to do with the planet. That word is dur.

If Isaiah 40:22 were actually meant to describe a spherical earth, then the word dur would have been used.

But, even without this simple understanding of the use and meaning of these words, one can easily conclude that this is a reference to a flat and circular earth simply by reading the rest of the verse:

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a CANOPY, and spreads them out like a TENT to live in.

To get a better idea of what is being described here, observe a depiction of what is being described and what was commonly believed by the ancient hebrews:



Now let's take a quick look at Job 26:7, which suggests that the earth is suspended over nothing. And, keep in mnd, this is Job speaking.

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.

This verse could be very compelling from a scientific standpoint if not for the fact that Job is later thoroughly rebuked by god for claiming that the earth has no foundation.

Job 38:1-6
Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
"Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone--"

And if that hasn't convince you that a flat earth is being described, verses 12 and 13 leave no room for debate...

"Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?"

The word "edges" leave no doubt that a flat earth is being descibed, not that the other verses cited are much less indicative.

Verses 12 and 13 clearly expose the bible as being merely a work of man that was limited to the prevailing perceptions of the time.

Because people of the time viewed the earth as flat, it also followed that day and night were experienced by all men at basically the same time. Therefore, the sun rose to temporarily provide light and it set to temporarily provide darkness.

Because we now know that the earth is round and spinning , we understand that daylight is being provided to the earth at all times. Further more, we know that the sun is not positioning itself in relation to us, but rather we (the earth) are positioning ourselves in relation to it.

On a concluding note, I would seriously recommend a full read of Job chapter 38, as we have just scratched the service of all of it's contradictions to modern science.

[catfish]

Holy fucking shit! Another literalist fundie...

[Esquilax]

Holy fucking shit! Another literalist fundie...

Catfish, if we wanted to hear from the cherrypickers, we'd ask you. Happily, very rarely does the conversation require the input of hypocrites.

[catfish]

Holy fucking shit! Another literalist fundie...

Catfish, if we wanted to hear from the cherrypickers, we'd ask you. Happily, very rarely does the conversation require the input of hypocrites.

Ahhh, you took me up on that offer. I expect only the best douchebageery from you my young man, mmm'kay?

[Esquilax]

Catfish, if we wanted to hear from the cherrypickers, we'd ask you. Happily, very rarely does the conversation require the input of hypocrites.

Ahhh, you took me up on that offer. I expect only the best douchebageery from you my young man, mmm'kay?

The moment you can explain why one shouldn't take the bible for what it is, then maybe I'll take you more seriously on this fundie atheist bullshit you keep spouting, as if it silences us. Otherwise, I'll consider it the same blither we've come to expect from you.

[catfish]

The moment you can explain why one shouldn't take the bible for what it is, then maybe I'll take you more seriously on this fundie atheist bullshit you keep spouting, as if it silences us. Otherwise, I'll consider it the same blither we've come to expect from you.

Because, that's why...







































I mean fish!