Petition officials of Colorado district to stop discrimating against trans kids

[Something completely different]

Naked assertion

So living out ones sexual desires and making use of ones right to self determination is unhealthy?

[jstrodel]

Self determination? You have to be kidding me. 6 year old's don't have self determination. That is their evil, liberal parents forcing their beliefs about world on the children. There is no way to tell what a child's gender is when they are 6 years old. What is gender, anyways? How can you distinguish between gender and sexuality (isn't that the argument homosexuals make anyways?).

Since when are 6 year olds expected to live out their sexual desire.

[Foxaèr]

Self determination? You have to be kidding me. 6 year old's don't have self determination. That is their evil, liberal parents forcing their beliefs about world on the children.

Much in the same way believers force their beliefs regarding god onto their children, rather than allowing their children to grow up to decide for themselves what it is they wish to believe?

[jstrodel]

No, because parents need to teach their kids about the world. That is a natural part of growing up. That is different from telling your children they need to change their sex.

What is gender anyways? What is a transgendered person? How can someone be transgendered? How do you know what makes a male a male?

[Foxaèr]

No, because parents need to teach their kids about the world.

Teaching one's children about the world does not have to include religion. Or if one desires to teach his children about religion, it is better to teach according to comparative studies rather than this one is true and all others are false.

[jstrodel]

Right, it is better to teach that "perhaps it is wrong to tell a lie, since satanists are not obligated to tell the truth", or something like that. That is the only reasonable one.

Of course, that is exactly how you study science, isn't it?

[Psykhronic]

Sex - biological makeup (male/female, chromosomes, etc)
gender - the sex a person identifies with, it's mental and people have reasons for wanting the physical to match

[Foxaèr]

Right, it is better to teach that "perhaps it is wrong to tell a lie, since satanists are not obligated to tell the truth", or something like that. That is the only reasonable one.

Of course, that is exactly how you study science, isn't it?

I am assuming that you think satanists intentionally lying about everything due to your misinformed belief that they worship the father of lies. Last time I checked, satanists have no affiliation with the Judeo-Christian concept of satan. Therefore, their morals are based on a universally accepted set of objective morals.

The fact that you believe science is of the devil only proves how unknowledgeable you are in regards to anything that does not include your sky daddy magic.

[The Grand Nudger]

What's wrong with "perhaps it is wrong to tell a lie". That's an accurate and healthy representation of reality. What am I supposed to do, set my kids up for some hellish collection of complexes due to dichotomous and unrealistic appraisals of what is or isn't ?

No, no thank you, that's exactly what I'll be telling my children.
"Yes honey, perhaps it is wrong to tell a lie, what kind of lie, and why did you tell it?"

-"A bully was trying to find my friend so he could be mean to her, and he asked me If i knew where she was...so I said no - but I did know where she was"

"I think you're off the hook on that one".

How did you imagine that would turn out Strudel? Maybe you outta think about letting some serious time pass before you have any kids eh?

[Mystical]

Self determination? You have to be kidding me. 6 year old's don't have self determination. That is their evil, liberal parents forcing their beliefs about world on the children. There is no way to tell what a child's gender is when they are 6 years old. What is gender, anyways? How can you distinguish between gender and sexuality (isn't that the argument homosexuals make anyways?).

Since when are 6 year olds expected to live out their sexual desire.

Well it certainly isn't living out a sexual desire, surely you must be kidding me.

Since you missed the original thread that this was split from, heres the highlighs.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-17403-page-11.html

Being transgendered is no longer a mental disorder



The Mathis' have a set of triplets and two other children, Dakota, 8, and Auri, 2. The father, Jeremy Mathis, 31, is a former Marine who was honorably discharged with injuries. Kathryn Mathis, 27, is a certified nurse assistant and takes care of Coy's triplet, Lily who has been severely disabled since a viral infection after birth. She must be fed through an IV and is quadriplegic. "When she was able to be a girl," said Kathryn Mathis, "she blossomed."

Coy started kindergarten as a boy but soon became unhappy when classmates treated her like a boy. Being made to stand in the boys' line made her cry. Doctors diagnosed her with gender-identity disorder. After a few months in kindergarten, Coy's parents consulted with therapists and began to help her make the social transition from boy to girl.
"When the transition happened, some kids asked what happened, that Coy was a boy and is now a girl," said Kathryn Mathis. "The teacher said, 'Coy is a girl, and that's it.' Kids at that age are very accepting."

In December, officials in Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 ruled Coy would have to use the boys' bathroom at Eagleside Elementary, or the staff or health-room restrooms. Her parents on Feb. 15 filed a complaint with the state Civil Rights Division.


Experts say increasing numbers of little kids are showing up in doctors offices insisting they were born into the body of the wrong sex — kids like Coy Mathis, the 6-year-old child banned from using the girls' bathroom at her Fountain school because she is biologically male.
"We're seeing it all across the state," said Dr. Daniel Reirden, a Children's Hospital Colorado physician who said his referrals "went up 200-fold" after he spoke on the issue of children and gender-identity disorder at a recent conference.
Described as "gender-variant," these children typically begin to demonstrate cross-gender behaviors between the ages of 2 and 4. They express a strong desire to live as the opposite gender — clothes, toys, pronouns.
Sometimes, it's typical preschool curiosity. But for other kids, it's the beginning of a life out of the ordinary, challenging societal expectations of what defines their gender.

"In many rural communities, or places with less metropolitan areas, a lot of times kids will know something is different about them, and they identify this way, but there is social pressure to be your birth gender," Reirden said.

Some adults who grew up in the '50s and '60s felt this way but never talked about it, said Karen Scarpella, program director for the Gender Identity Center of Colorado.

"There all these adults who say, 'I knew when I was 3 or 4, but I couldn't tell anyone. That was made very clear to me.' But now we're in a society that allows more gender-bending, and we can express ourselves more," Scarpella said.

Sex is assigned at birth according to biological status, but gender deals with the roles, behaviors, activities and expressions that society deems appropriate for males and females.

Children who are gender nonconforming are not considered to have mental disorders unless they experience great distress and discomfort at being unable to express who they believe they are.

As the general public becomes more aware of the issue through stories about kids such as Coy, the scientific community is also starting to expand its research into life cycles of transgender people to include children.

In 2009, the Endocrine Society released evidence-based medical guidelines for endocrine treatment of people with gender-identity disorder, including children.
In 2010, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health released its standards of care that for the first time included children.
Because the field is so new, especially regarding children, "It's not without controversy," said Reirden. "Even within the psychological community, there are people on both sides of the camp."

There are two basic models of treatment.
One advocates allowing the child to express cross-gender identity, which is what medical doctors and therapists recommended for Coy Mathis.

The other advises conditioning the child to fit the gender norm.

There are only a few clinics in the U.S. that specialize in gender-identity disorder in children, and the leader is the Gender Management Service Clinic at Boston Children's Hospital, founded by pediatric endocrinologist Norman Spack.

Last year the medical journal Pediatrics published the first U.S. study of children and teens with gender-identity disorder, based on 97 patients of the clinic.

More than 44 percent described experiencing gender dysphoria — the feeling of a mismatch between biological sex and gender identity — or cross-gender behavior in preschool years.

The study found that gender-dysphoric children who did not receive counseling are at higher risk for behavioral and emotional problems.

In Denver, parents of gender- dysphoric children usually find their way to Reirden or clinical psychologist Sarah Burgamy, who specializes in working with gender-variant children and their families.

"It's important for people like us to collaborate because this is a medical issue and an emotional-psychological issue," Reirden said. "I don't view it as psychopathology. That generally comes about because families refuse to offer support, or society doesn't allow the child to express as the preferred gender."

When a parent shows up in Burgamy's office with a gender-dysphoric child, she usually advises a wait-and-see approach, because research shows that young children can be gender-fluid. In most children, gender dysphoria will disappear around the age of puberty or before.[b]

"I tell the parents, let's give the child some room to tell us who they are," she said.[/b] "But that can be a tricky thing, because in practical life, it's a gendered society — sports, bathrooms, changing rooms, even boys' and girls' birthday parties."

Reirden knows of families who work with their children to transition in steps. They go to school as their biological sex, he said, "but come home to a safe and supportive environment where they can express their perceived gender."

Children who are insistent about being cross-gender for a sustained period of time, he said, "are probably not likely to change by the time of late childhood and pre-adolescence."

Coy Mathis seems to be one of those children.



Her mother, Kathryn Mathis, recalls that as early as 18 months, Coy loved dresses and tutus. By age 2, she refused to leave the house dressed as a boy.

"Ever since she was able to talk, she expressed to us that she was a girl, not a boy," said Kathryn Mathis.










FOUNTAIN, Colo. (AP) — At first, Jeremy and Kathryn Mathis didn't think much of their son's behavior. Coy took his sister's pink blanket, and shunned the car they gave him for Christmas.
Then, Coy told them he only wanted to wear girls' clothes. At school, he became upset when his teacher insisted he line up with the boys. All the while, he was becoming depressed and withdrawn, telling his parents at one point he wanted to get "fixed" by doctors.
When the Mathises learned he had gender identity disorder — a condition in which someone identifies as the opposite gender — they decided to help Coy live as a girl. And suddenly, she came out of her shell.
"We could force her to be somebody she wasn't, but it would end up being more damaging to her emotionally and to us because we would lose the relationship with her," Kathryn Mathis said. "She was discussing things like surgery and things like that before and she's not now, so obviously we've done something positive."
Now, her family is locked in a legal battle with the school district in Fountain, a town 82 miles south of Denver, over where Coy, 6, should go to use the bathroom — the girls' or, as school officials suggest, one in the teachers' lounge or another in the nurse's office. Her parents say using anything other than the girls' bathroom could stigmatize her, and open her up to bullying.
Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 declined to comment, citing a complaint filed on behalf of the Mathises with the Colorado Office of Civil Rights that alleges a violation of the state's anti-discrimination law. School officials, however, sent a letter to the family, explaining their decision to prevent Coy from using the girls' bathroom at Eagleside Elementary, where she is a first-grader.
"I'm certain you can appreciate that as Coy grows older and his male genitals develop along with the rest of his body, at least some parents and students are likely to become uncomfortable with his continued use of the girls' restroom," the letter read.
School districts in many states, including Colorado, have enacted policies that allow transgender students to use the bathroom of the gender with which they identify. Sixteen states, including Colorado, have anti-discrimination laws that include protections for transgender people.
Legal battles such as the one the Mathises are facing are rare, said Michael Silverman of the New York-based Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund who is representing the Mathises. He sees about a dozen cases each year. Silverman refers most cases to social workers who work with districts to work out a solution to a well-recognized medical condition.
Psychologists don't know what causes the condition, but it was added to the American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic manual in 1980 — some three decades after the psychological concept of gender began to be developed.
The manual's fifth edition, due out in May, changes the name to Gender Dysphoria — which refers to the distress from the gender conflict — partly out of concerns that the current name is stigmatizing, said Dr. Jack Drescher, a New York psychiatrist who serves on the working group that suggested the changes.
There's no consensus on how to treat it in somebody Coy's age because of a lack of data on the disorder in prepubescent children. Research suggests that many children gradually become "comfortable with their natural gender," an APA task force reported in 2011. But the goal of any treatment should be to help the child adjust to its reality, the APA said.
Coy is a triplet, with a brother, Max, and a sister, Lily. At 5 months old, Coy was already expressing a preference for items associated with girls, the Mathises recalled.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Co...z2MSXDC0eF

As a triplet, Coy has a brother and a sister, so the Mathis parents were able to watch one boy develop a male gender identity, while the other became ever more insistent about being female.

Coy started kindergarten as a boy but soon became unhappy when classmates treated her like a boy. Being made to stand in the boys' line made her cry.

Doctors diagnosed her with gender-identity disorder. After a few months in kindergarten, Coy's parents consulted with therapists and began to help her make the social transition from boy to girl.

"When the transition happened, some kids asked what happened, that Coy was a boy and is now a girl," said Kathryn Mathis. "The teacher said, 'Coy is a girl, and that's it.' Kids at that age are very accepting."

In December, officials in Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 ruled Coy would have to use the boys' bathroom at Eagleside Elementary, or the staff or health-room restrooms. Her parents on Feb. 15 filed a complaint with the state Civil Rights Division.

The Mathises have no second thoughts about their decision to allow Coy to express herself.

"When she was able to be a girl," said Kathryn Mathis, "she blossomed."



Read more: Pediatricians see growing number of cross-gender kids like Coy Mathis - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_227065...z2PGt4IydZ
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The Standards of Care Handbook for Mental Health Professionals working with Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria (PAGE 10)

The Standards of Care
7TH VERSION
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Roles of Mental Health Professionals Working with
Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria

The roles of mental health professionals working with gender dysphoric children and adolescents
may include the following:

---

1. Directly assess gender dysphoria in children and adolescents (see general guidelines for assessment, below).
2. Provide family counseling and supportive psychotherapy to assist children and adolescents
with exploring their gender identity, alleviating distress related to their gender dysphoria, and
ameliorating any other psychosocial difficulties.
3. Assess and treat any co-existing mental health concerns of children or adolescents (or refer to
another mental health professional for treatment). Such concerns should be addressed as part of the overall treatment plan.
4. Refer adolescents for additional physical interventions (such as puberty suppressing hormones) to alleviate gender dysphoria. The referral should include documentation of an assessment of gender dysphoria and mental health, the adolescent’s eligibility for physical interventions (outlined below), the mental health professional’s relevant expertise, and any other
information pertinent to the youth’s health and referral for specific treatments.
5. Educate and advocate on behalf of gender dysphoric children, adolescents, and their families
in their community (e.g., day care centers, schools, camps, other organizations). This is particularly important in light of evidence that children and adolescents who do not conform to
socially prescribed gender norms may experience harassment in school (Grossman, D’Augelli,
& Salter, 2006; Grossman, D’Augelli, Howell, & Hubbard, 2006; Sausa, 2005), putting them at
risk for social isolation, depression, and other negative sequelae (Nuttbrock et al., 2010).
6. Provide children, youth, and their families with information and referral for peer support, such
as support groups for parents of gender nonconforming and transgender children

Psychological and Social Interventions
for Children and Adolescents
When supporting and treating children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, health professionals
should broadly conform to the following guidelines:

1. Mental health professionals should help families to have an accepting and nurturing response
to the concerns of their gender dysphoric child or adolescent. Families play an important role in
the psychological health and well-being of youth (Brill & Pepper, 2008; Lev, 2004). This also applies to peers and mentors from the community, who can be another source of social support.

2. Psychotherapy should focus on reducing a child’s or adolescent’s distress related to the gender dysphoria and on ameliorating any other psychosocial difficulties. For youth pursuing sex reassignment, psychotherapy may focus on supporting them before, during, and after reassignment. Formal evaluations of different psychotherapeutic approaches for this situation have not been published, but several counseling methods have been described (Cohen-Kettenis, 2006;
de Vries, Cohen-Kettenis, & Delemarre-van de Waal, 2006; Di Ceglie & Thümmel, 2006; Hill,
Menvielle, Sica, & Johnson, 2010; Malpas, in press; Menvielle & Tuerk, 2002; Rosenberg, 2002;
Vanderburgh, 2009; Zucker, 2006).

Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success
(Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical.

3. Families should be supported in managing uncertainty and anxiety about their child’s or adolescent’s psychosexual outcomes and in helping youth to develop a positive self-concept.

---

EX-GAY INDUSTRY EXODUS INT'L

Alan Chambers, 40, the president, declared that there was no cure for homosexuality
and that “reparative therapy” offered false hopes to gays and could even be harmful.
His statements have led to charges of heresy and a growing schism within the network.

http://exodusinternational.org/about-us/

---

Bob Davies, executive director of Exodus North America, spoke at a OneByOne luncheon on 2001-JUN-12. It was held in conjunction with the 213th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) . 19 OneByOne is a participating member of the Presbyterian Renewal Network -- a conservative reform movement within the denomination. OneByOne's purpose is to support gays and lesbians who are "struggling with sexual brokenness" and "are in conflict with their sexuality." This includes, but is not limited to, counseling gays and lesbians. 20

Davies listed the the top five false myths that he feels are spread about Exodus and other ex-gay ministries:

Ex-gay ministries are a fraud. Evidence available to us indicates that ex-gay ministry personnel are certainly sincere and dedicated in their work. But a case can be made that they may not completely level with their clients. For example, consider Exodus:
Their advertising implies, but does not state implicitly, that individuals with a homosexual orientation can change and achieve a heterosexual orientation. Yet, from their 25 years of experience in the field, they must know that the chances of an adult's genuinely changing their sexual orientation is nil (or almost nil). The only option that they can ethically offer clients with a homosexual orientation is lifelong celibacy. But they do not mention this in their advertising and promotional literature.
Their Policy on Homosexuality states: "Christ offers a healing alternative to those with homosexual tendencies. EXODUS upholds redemption for the homosexual person as the process whereby sin's power is broken, and the individual is freed to know and experience true identity as discovered in Christ and His Church. That process entails the freedom to grow into heterosexuality." 21 (Emphasis ours)

By now, Exodus must have realized that this option is not available to persons with a homosexual orientation. Only individuals with a bisexual orientation have any chance of abandoning same-sex behavior and choosing an opposite-gender sexual partner.
Exodus typically assess the goals that the client wants to achieve, and then works with the client towards achieving those goals. However, it is apparent that ex-gay ministries do not give some clients sufficient information so that they can make an informed choice. For example, a gay or lesbian who establishes a goal of changing their sexual orientation to heterosexual is not necessarily warned that such conversion is either impossible or virtually impossible to achieve. She or he is not generally informed that the best they can probably hope for is to remain celibate.
Methods such as shock treatment are employed: This seems to be a hoax. Decades ago, researchers tried aversion therapy, castration, breast amputation, etc., in their unsuccessful attempts to change individuals' sexual orientation.

We have heard rumors of shock therapy being still used by unethical medical professionals in a few secure facilities for gay and lesbian youth. We have heard rumors of shock therapy at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City, a Mormon institution. But these are only rumors and have never been substantiated. We have seen absolutely no evidence that conservative Christian ex-gay ministries use these fraudulent therapies.

Persons do not come forward of their own volition but are forced. This also seems to be a hoax. Some gay or lesbian youth are probably heavily pressured by their parents to attend meetings at an ex-gay ministry. However, the overwhelming percentage of clients are adults who seem to be self-motivated and quite anxious to change their behavior.

People actually get worse. From our conversations with clients and former clients of ex-gay ministries, we have concluded that many, perhaps most, get better -- that is, they move forward towards achieving their goals. Many sexually active clients with a homosexual orientation enter Exodus with the goal of becoming celibate, and some are successful. Many persons with a bisexual orientation are successfully able to reach their goal of confining their relationships to members of the opposite sex. Some clients enter an ex-gay ministry with their goal of changing their orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. All, or essentially all, fail. But that can be a positive experience. Some will then conclude that they have tried everything to change their orientation. They can now give up trying, and learn to accept themselves for what they are.

Unfortunately, when some homosexual clients find that they have failed to change their sexual orientation, they become deeply depressed. A few commit suicide. Professional mental health organizations caution gays and lesbians against therapies designed to try to change their sexual orientation. They view such therapies as ineffective. They are concerned about the potential for serious depression and suicidal ideation.

Ex-gay ministries have a hidden, or political, agenda. This seems to be another hoax. From our discussions with ministry staff, volunteers and clients, we have concluded that personnel in these ministries are dedicated and sincere Christians. Their energy is directed at working with and helping their clients. It is the larger conservative Christian ministries, which do not offer individual counseling, that commit a major part of their effort into achieving political goals -- organizations like Focus on the Family, Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America, etc. Their agendas are not hidden; they are well publicized.

EXODUS' WEBSITE:

We believe that same-sex attractions are multi-causal meaning that there are multiple factors that lend to the development of this struggle. Many researchers, Christian and secular alike, have tried to boil the issue down to simple choice or genetics. We believe that both fail to convey the complexity of this issue and only serve to invalidate the people who are same-sex attracted.

While we have never met anyone who “chose” to feel same-sex attracted, people do have to eventually make a decision to either act on those feelings or not to act on them. Since 1976, Exodus has served as an organization helping men and women surrender their sexual struggles to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. We do not believe that same-sex attractions are sinful in and of themselves but rather one type of struggle and temptation among the millions that impact each and every human being.

We do believe that any sexual expression outside of a monogamous marriage between one man and one woman falls outside of God’s creative intent for human sexual expression and is sinful. Homosexuality is no greater or less a sin than any other and is not the determining factor for a relationship with Jesus Christ.[b]

---