If Not Hell then what?

[Cato]

Absolutly! IF my wife was raped and murdered by a soldier of a foreign god ...

What would you do if your wife was raped and murdered by a soldier of YOUR god?

[Drich]

....Seriously? That is what hell is.. It is oblivion by the way of being consumed grief and regret (what makes hell fire all consuming)

Hell, Drich, is not an alternative to hell. How much simpler could this possibly be stated?

So i ask if not hell then what, you all say you yearn for what your stay in hell will ultimately produce. Oblivion. so i ask(in hopes that one of you will see that what you asked for is what God has in store for you all along... Then most of you reply that none of you want it.

I'd rather have watermelons and fried chicken with naked bells - if anythings on the table as an alternative. Make it so. You have nothing in store for me Drich. Not just nothing that I want, nothing.

Then God will have some Good news for you!

No you won't, lol.

Wow... Do you really need me to explain this to you? Since you were so gracious to me when by your reasoning You thought i was the slow one, I will spell it all out for you as you tried to do for me.

Yes, I know hell is not a substitute for hell, but appearently everyone who suggested oblivion did not understand that hell would eventually lead to oblivion, even though it has been explained at least a dozen times in this thread. That said, understand I am not asking my question to replace Hell for Hell. I am asking so that those who can't seem to fathom a hell outside of the inferno Dante has painted for them, has a better understanding of what the NT describes as Hell.

I have hoped in vain that just one of you would come to the understanding that oblivion is the final destination of everyone on the path to Hell will come to. Thus forcing just one of you to give me an chance to explore something other than what God has slated for the condemned. However all anyone seems to want is heaven or the very same hell God has prepared for satan and his angels..

This is all very interesting. I am completely surprised. Understand I am not saying all of you are doomed to hell, but at least one or two of you who answered 'oblivion' are. I strikes me that we even in our rebellion of God still only wants what God has only ever offered.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, I know hell is not a substitute for hell,

Good then stop insisting upon it every time an alternative is offered. Alternatives which you, personally, solicited.

but appearently everyone who suggested oblivion did not understand that hell would eventually lead to oblivion,

No one cares, going through hell - to get somewhere else- is still not an -alternative- to hell. It's just hell...over and over and over and over.....

even though it has been explained at least a dozen times in this thread.

Your explanations aren't a very credible source round these parts dearest. This has been the fruit of your labor.

That said, understand I am not asking my question to replace Hell for Hell. I am asking so that those who can't seem to fathom a hell outside of the inferno Dante has painted for them, has a better understanding of what the NT describes as Hell.

Dante wrote better fiction than you or the boys who cobbled your book together. That's why his vision (and not really uniquely his, mind you) stuck and no one cares about yours, or theirs.

I have hoped in vain that just one of you would come to the understanding that oblivion is the final destination of everyone on the path to Hell will come to. Thus forcing just one of you to give me an chance to explore something other than what God has slated for the condemned. However all anyone seems to want is heaven or the very same hell God has prepared for satan and his angels..

Coming to an understanding requires that there be something to understand. Since we're talking about hell like it's a place - that gets ruled out.I don't want either, btw (heaven or hell).

This is all very interesting. I am completely surprised. Understand I am not saying all of you are doomed to hell, but at least one or two of you who answered 'oblivion' are.

So sayeth almighty drich, weigher of souls and redeemer of the damned....careful, you might get struck down or mauled by a bear for making such pronouncements. I've heard that's a thing that definitely happens.

I strikes me that we even in our rebellion of God still only wants what God has only ever offered.

As I mentioned above, and in my previous post-I wan't nothing from you, and you have nothing to offer me in this regard.

[Drich]

LMAO! Drich...Don't you see? The problems created here stem from YOU. You could be blindly defending a God that actually exists, but your inability to form comprehensible justification for it actually weakens it's case. You do not make any sense. The stupid book you desperately defend fails you at every corner. You make wild and ridiculous claims to understand a book that many dedicate their lives to interpreting, and yet, with unrelenting arrogance, continue to use your distinct interpretation, of this bullshit in text, to make an incoherent case for a God that seems more and more unlikely as you move your fingers accross the keys to type its defense! It's you we reject, its your interpretation of this farfetched malevolent being that you try so hard to depict as a loving creator.

I have said a least a dozen or more times in this thread alone God is not all loving. So why would you foolishly assume that I am trying to portray a "loving creator?" God is "loving" to those who belong to Him, and the rest can quite literally goto Hell. This is mirrored all through out the old and new testaments. The contrast you see between how I am representing God and scripture, should be a big giant red flag that shows you how far out of touch and how little you actually know of the bible and of the God the bible represents.
do you truly not understand that it is your understanding of God is what is dead? truthfully You have absolutly no clue as to the God of the bible or of Christianity outside of what appears to be a middle school comprehension based in Sunday school and old wives tales. Yet somehow you believe your Sunday school education has prepared you to write the following paragraph. It is like you really do not understand that the discrepancy between the bible and God I represent and the way you think christianity and god actual work, shows an intellectual deficit in your basic understandings of God and biblically based christianity.

-or- are you so foolish to really think after 20 years as Christian, a teacher, a missionary, leader, a student and most importantly a A/S/K'er that I do not know enough about God to properly represent Him or the bible, against all you have done prepare for this argument? yeah. You guys are so predictable, it like you were all taught to think and say the same things, or did you think you were the first on atheist forums to hit the wall and try a sweeping dismissal based on what you learn in Sunday school?

We reject your theories, your interpretations, and your avoidance to logic and reason as a means to justify your insanity. It's utter nonsense, and it is the focus of our entertainment to watch you continue to embarrass yourself. Your God is dead, and to say dead, is to pay homage to a ficticious character that has never warranted so much as a pronoun much less credit for all existance or my ability to type this ever so true message to you. It is dead because the lie has not outlived knowledge. Human understanding has overcome the dogmatic rhetoric that has consumed the ones that passed this contagious ignorance on to you. You have not given a single legitimate argument to defend your claims and that would be just fine, so long as you didn't persist that it was a reasonable one. The minute you give claim to having a rational claim, and go on to include your deity in it, you begin to dig the trench that is our entertainment. Take your bible, light it on fire, and give it to a homeless man to keep him warm. That is the closest thing to a benevolent act that could possibly be achieved by the God described in it. By the way...I like your sun flower.

Thanks mrs drich planted them in a dark time for us. The sunflower is a constant reminder that no matter how dark things may seem there is a path out. All any of us have to do to find it is to A/S/K.

Oh, and one more thing one more time. The God of the bible is not Omni benevolent like you think I think he is. If you think God is Omni benevolent then all you have to do is provide book chapter and verse. Seeing as you will not be able to do this then we must take things like smashing babies against rocks the orders to kill old people and women and even His ability to judge and send people to hell as a great big billboard that says GOD IS NOT ALL LOVING like your Sunday school teacher told you He was.

One last time God's love is conditional John 3:16 God so love the world THAT WHO SO EVER... (That my friend is a condition, which makes God's love very conditional, and not all loving.) which means if I am to represent the God of the bible then I have to represent the wrath and the love he has for His people, not offer His love to those He Himself has not offered it to.

---

Absolutly! IF my wife was raped and murdered by a soldier of a foreign god ...

What would you do if your wife was raped and murdered by a soldier of YOUR god?

"The Lord Giveth, and The Lord taketh away, Blessed be the Name of the Lord."

I and my wife both Love God more than each other, our kids, our possessions and even our own lives. Whatever God wants He is free to take. (Not that He needs my or anyone elses permission)

[The Grand Nudger]

Wait, wait, let me get this right...something more than a sunday school education is required to engage in a discussion about fairies. I doubt that very much. I think that fairies and discussions of fairies as things that are actually flitting about is pretty much -limited- to a sunday school education, or at least something similar and no more advanced.

Good for you and your wife btw, make sure you remind your children of that as often as possible.

[Drich]

Wait, wait, let me get this right...something more than a sunday school education is required to engage in a discussion about fairies. I doubt that very much. I think that fairies and discussions of fairies as things that are actually flitting about is pretty much -limited- to a sunday school education, or at least something similar and no more advanced.

Good for you and your wife btw, make sure you remind your children of that as often as possible.

To Always put God first is the foundation of everything we do. (It doesn't need to be said anymore.) In doing so we have been given a bond that has seen us through Hell on Earth. There is nothing stronger, There is no greater love that can be shown from individuals, if they would all strive to Love God first. By doing so our capacity for Love is deepened far beyond anything we could have ever hoped to show under our own abilities. After my ability to love my wife was all but eroded away by years of drug abuse, what kept us together was my love and commitment to God. This love and commitment is also what has us completely reconcile/leaving the hurt and resentment behind. Again My Greater Love for God is in everything I do, It is why/how I could love her beyond my ability to do so.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds to me like you underestimated (and continue to underestimate) your own abilities. The only way to maintain this position is to maintain that its no longer you, but a compelling magic that's currently (or was) "loving" your wife from the area of your general vicinity (don't giggle....don't do it).......

.....otherwise it's still you, doing what normal people do, what requires no supernatural assistance to accomplish.

[Drich]

Sounds to me like you underestimated (and continue to underestimate) your own abilities. The only way to maintain this position is to maintain that its no longer you, but a compelling magic that's currently (or was) "loving" your wife from the area of your general vicinity (don't giggle....don't do it).......

.....otherwise it's still you, doing what normal people do, what requires no supernatural assistance to accomplish.

Every man knows his limits. I was ready for a divorce, because at that point we had lost support of everyone in her family and mine. Both her mom and dad told me we love her but will not do anything else for her. They were ready to let her die if that's what was needed. It cost me my relationship with my father as well as he coud not understand how a non drug user could be with someone who used drugs, as a result he and I did not speak for 8 years. 4 years into that 8 of being completely isolated from friends and family I was past done. My commitment to God, and to my vow to her before Him was the only thing we had left. i know this because we had 2 more years of hardship to endure.

During that peroid all that was left in me was a since of duty and a commitment I made to God. For if we Love the Lord as He commands (With all of our Heart, Mind, Spirit, and strength) this love filters back when things like a love of a spouce is not able to sustain a relationship when one of you is not able keep up your end of the relationship. What you do not seem to understand that if both of you are focoused on God (something greater than the sum of the parts of your relationship) Then you have the ablity to tap into a far deeper capasity to love than what you are able to offer just on your own..

[Faith No More]

What you seem to not understand is Rhythm's point is that that ability to tap into a far deeper capacity of love resides within you. You've just chalked it up to external forces and given it a name.

[The Grand Nudger]

Every man knows his limits.

You think so, I disagree, I think that by and large people are very poor appraisers of their own abilities. Most of us are capable of doing something we don't imagine ourselves to be capable of, and most of us imagine ourselves to be much more capable than we are in some area. To be honest, by all available indicators, the things that we are capable of (and the things that we are not) are all pretty uniform, falling just one or two deviations from any norm. This is to be expected, we're all very, very similar.

I was ready for a divorce, because at that point we had lost support of everyone in her family and mine. Both her mom and dad told me we love her but will not do anything else for her. They were ready to let her die if that's what was needed. It cost me my relationship with my father as well as he coud not understand how a non drug user could be with someone who used drugs, as a result he and I did not speak for 8 years. 4 years into that 8 of being completely isolated from friends and family I was past done. My commitment to God, and to my vow to her before Him was the only thing we had left. i know this because we had 2 more years of hardship to endure.

Ready but not willing, I mean honestly - and this all sounds very rough so I don;t want you to think I'm devaluing your experience here- you've just described to me how -your- determination to keep a promise -you- made became the single most important factor when the impetus for making that promise had faded to nil. People do this all the time, and it definitely isn't limited to promises made to any god. I know a bunch of guys from rehab that made promises to their kids or themselves (and yes, some to god) that they would stick with it - and even though most of them, at some point in the therapy felt that they simply couldn't take another step - couldn't even clench their fist another time....that promise kept them going. They wanted to hold their daughters hand, or stand up without assistance. The paradoxical feeling of being spent but at the same time clinging to a singular focal point to give you he oomph to go one more day isn;t lost on me and I;ve been there myself......but how..in all of this, you can imagine that the driving force isn't you - that you aren't expressing a well known and well understood sort of drive and determination.....that's beyond me.

During that peroid all that was left in me was a since of duty and a commitment I made to God. For if we Love the Lord as He commands (With all of our Heart, Mind, Spirit, and strength) this love filters back when things like a love of a spouce is not able to sustain a relationship when one of you is not able keep up your end of the relationship.

-Your- duty, -your- sense of commitment. More of the same from the above. See how you can't tell the story without constant reference to yourself? God is just a qualifier, an added word. If you left it out, you'd still be able to recount the events of the tale. Conveniently, many people do tell this tale, with other gods as the added word, or none at all.

What you do not seem to understand that if both of you are focoused on God (something greater than the sum of the parts of your relationship) Then you have the ablity to tap into a far deeper capasity to love than what you are able to offer just on your own..

Oh ffs, couldn't help yourself? Maybe you need to create a focal point for conversations when the going gets rough and you start to feel the urge to make idiotic statements. It's exceedingly unlikely that you have any capacity to love in any deeper or more meaningful way than myself (and judging from your many many posts here is fairly obvious that even though our relative capacity for love is in all likelihood identical - you've found a way to greatly reduce your expression thereof). In addition to it being exceedingly unlikely that this is even remotely true, if it were, then the source would not be some magic fucking well............