Allegory vs. Literal Fact in the Bible

[rexbeccarox]

Thanks Tex. All pretty much what I learned in Sunday school. I appreciate it.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Most Christians think the Bible is a combination of allegory and literal fact. Can the Christians on the board enlighten me as to which book/gospel is which?

That which is patently absurd is allegory. The rest is literal.

[Neo-Scholastic]

From a recent lecture I gave...

Swedenborg identified three specific levels within the Scriptures: Literal, Spiritual, and Heavenly.

The Literal: From this type of plain reading stories like Noah’s flood, Balaam’s ass, and the city of New Jerusalem descending from heaven concern a real flood, a talking donkey, and an actual city. From this we get object lessons about moral behavior, inspiring poetry, and instructions about daily life from various parables. Like ancient Greek and Teutonic mythology, the literal meaning can be psychologically insightful. Such insights alone do not make Scripture holy.

The Spiritual: The spiritual core of the Word makes it holy. It wears the legends of old the way the soul wears the body. This inner meaning brings the Word to life and is why we can say that the Holy Scriptures have life in them. The Word’s spiritual meaning deals with the relationship between the Lord and humanity. Sometimes it addresses the relationship between the Lord and the spiritual community, like the antediluvians, the people represented by figures such as Abraham, or the nation of Israel.

Most of us have some knowledge about ancient myths that have remarkable similarity to the stories of the bible. Many of these predate their Scriptural form and vary in many important details. The Gilgamesh flood epic sounds much like Noah’s flood. Babylonian artifacts match description of Cherubim and Seraphim found in the biblical texts. This should not surprise us. The Word originated from YHVH, divinity itself, as an inexpressible. To reach the human intellect, it needed to take a form adapted to our understanding. Under the Lord’s guidance, spiritually perceptive story tellers folded hidden spiritual messages into longstanding legends. They did so without any awareness and that hidden meaning has only recently been revealed to mankind.

The Heavenly: Beyond the spiritual meaning lies an even deeper level of significance: the heavenly meaning. The heavenly meaning tells us about the Lord Himself, the inner workings of Providence, stages of His manifestation, the nature of His Humanity, His justice, and His mercy. Most times it is difficult to discern between the spiritual and heavenly. Heavenly meanings seem more accessible from prophetic forms of address and allegorical passages.

(My book by book is very similar to Tex's, with some minor differences.) I consider the Torah to be largely legendary i.e. embellished real events.

[Minimalist]

Exodus-Deuteronomy is all literal say for one part:

Too bad there's no fucking evidence that it ever happened. Kind of busts your balloon but you won't believe it anyway.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

(My book by book is very similar to Tex's, with some minor differences.) I consider the Torah to be largely legendary i.e. embellished real events.

What might have been the real events which were embellished you can claim with a straight face were real events without redefining "real" in the process? Exaggerated beyond recognition cannot be distinguished from fantasy other than by faith which is meaningless.

[rexbeccarox]

Thanks Chad. Also helpful.

[Ryantology]

If you do not read the bible as if it was conveying literal truth, how do you know you are not misinterpreting the entire thing?

Do you know what the largest metaphor is in the Bible? God. He is a metaphor for authority and justice. To relay the precise concepts to an illiterate, ignorant population, you appeal to their propensity to superstition and create a 'living' embodiment of these abstract concepts, and give their ideas of right and wrong extra weight and appeal by attributing them to a supernatural monster who will get them for their 'crimes' even if real authorities never even find out. Before a fringe group of rogue Jews transformed him into an iron age hippie, God was not your father, your friend, or your guardian. He was your judge, jury and executioner. It was the only role God consistently plays in the Old Testament. Half of the challenge to Christian apologetics is the obvious fact that the Old Testament Yahweh and Jesus Christ are in no way similar to one another in temperament, behavior, or violence.

How do you get to decide that this part or that part is a metaphor, but God himself is certainly excluded from this analysis?

[Raven]

Precious little has any historical validity so far as I've been able to determine. Genesis is entirely nonsense. Moses never existed, the bondage in Egypt never happened, consequently there was no Exodus. There is zero evidence for any Davidic Empire, the priests just added that for propaganda purposes. Whether a certain 1st Century itinerant preacher ever actually walked the earth, that is debatable. The slaughter of all male children under two by King Herod never occurred. There was no census as described necessitating going back to Joseph's ancestral home of Bethlehem. There's more, but that is all I can come up with off the top of my head.

[rexbeccarox]

Precious little has any historical validity so far as I've been able to determine. Genesis is entirely nonsense. Moses never existed, the bondage in Egypt never happened, consequently there was no Exodus. There is zero evidence for any Davidic Empire, the priests just added that for propaganda purposes. Whether a certain 1st Century itinerant preacher ever actually walked the earth, that is debatable. The slaughter of all male children under two by King Herod never occurred. There was no census as described necessitating going back to Joseph's ancestral home of Bethlehem. There's more, but that is all I can come up with off the top of my head.

I gotcha. I just thought it would help to clear things up during debates and discussions. If we can pin Christians' ideas down a little, it's harder for them to move goalposts.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Precious little has any historical validity so far as I've been able to determine. Genesis is entirely nonsense. Moses never existed, the bondage in Egypt never happened, consequently there was no Exodus. There is zero evidence for any Davidic Empire, the priests just added that for propaganda purposes. Whether a certain 1st Century itinerant preacher ever actually walked the earth, that is debatable. The slaughter of all male children under two by King Herod never occurred. There was no census as described necessitating going back to Joseph's ancestral home of Bethlehem. There's more, but that is all I can come up with off the top of my head.

Consequently there were no Israelites nor any conquest. There was no "Hebrew" language only a Palestinian language which is indistinguishable from Phoenician.

Consequently all the BS which is premised upon that which did not also did not happen.