Locked in the dogma

[Foxaèr]

What I find sad is how people invent "alternative dimensions" and "spiritual realities" because their imaginations are too feeble to see that everything that we are will fit comfortably inside the dimensions we already have.

It is not that their imaginations are feeble so much as it is that they cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality. After all, it does take a powerful imagination to believe that the supernatural is real.

[Ryantology]

It is good to be curious about everything, that is why i said that an atheist sooner or later will come to the conclusion that God exist.

I would love for this to be tested. Take some children, make sure they are never exposed to a single aspect of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, and see how many independently come to the conclusion that the particular God of these three monotheisms exists, is the creator of all the universe, and independently come to adhere, exactly, to any of their dogmas. How many of these children do you think would grow up to realize that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior (or that they had anything they needed to be saved from, for that matter).

I mean, I know the answer will be zero because religion is a completely material belief system pretending to have supernatural trappings, and it spreads through culture, not transcendental bullshit, but it'd be cool to see it proven and put paid to the lie that the God of the Bible, specifically, communicates directly to individuals through visions and dreams.

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The same syndrome affect also so many human being unfortunately.
They are so attached to this material-physical world that they do not want even to consider that there is a better way to live and prosper.

Said Moses the Raven as he told the animals of Sugarcandy Mountain.

[Raven]

Enrico wrote: They are so attached to this material-physical world that they do not want even to consider that there is a better way to live and prosper.

That is not it at all. I'm not attached to this "material-physical world" so much as I live in it. It is not as if I were given an option. This is quite simply that which we have. Whatever "better way to live and prosper" I ever find I will have to find within the confines of said world seeing it is that which exists. If you want to go playing mind games with yourself, be my guest.

You also said that "an atheist will sooner or later will come to the conclusion that God exists" Not likely. I know that he doesn't. That is why I'm an atheist. There is no "pie-in-the-sky-by-and-by-when-you-die". Look around, dude. What you see is what you get. And it's pretty damned wonderful.

I'm alive, on this really cool planet that does a pretty good job of giving us what we need. (If we don't screw it all up by being greedy and stupid, that is). I'm surrounded by fellow creatures that I rather enjoy and life is good. A better way to live and prosper would be to develop capabilities within oneself, but there's nothing "spiritual" in that. It's part of oneself.

We are all that we have, and that is quite good enough. We can do it. Those who keep insisting that we somehow need some non-existent super-being strike me as being the ultimate misanthropes. I just don't get it.

[Little Rik]

Since when an atheist is developing the spirit which is the most important part of every human being?

When I spend time with people I love and who love me in return;
when I lose myself in the emotional moment of a hauntingly captivating piece of music;
when I admire the beauty and the artistry of a painting or sculpture;
when I become absorbed in the world enshrined within the pages of a favourite novel;
when I look up at the night sky and allow my imagination free rein to explore the infinite expanse of the cosmos;
when I view amazing images of the natural world from the tiniest atomic structures to the Hubble Deep Field;
when I am enchanted by the innocent laughter of chidren at play -
- that is when I, an atheist, am developing that which you are happy to refer to as the spirit, and I resent the implication that I, an atheist, am somehow lacking in this 'important' human factor.

Dear Stimbo what you are referring to is the tip of the iceberg.
You got to bring up the whole of the iceberg to see the real thing and this happen by practicing spirituality.
Theory may be good but without practice you can only see the tip of the iceberg.
We got many glands that control all our existence.
The glands that allow you to feel those nice feeling and sentiment that you described are located lower then the one that i am talking about (pineal gland).
Spiritual love is at the very top of everything else.
But it takes time to realize this truth and i can understand you.

---

It is good to be curious about everything, that is why i said that an atheist sooner or later will come to the conclusion that God exist.

I would love for this to be tested. Take some children, make sure they are never exposed to a single aspect of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, and see how many independently come to the conclusion that the particular God of these three monotheisms exists, is the creator of all the universe, and independently come to adhere, exactly, to any of their dogmas. How many of these children do you think would grow up to realize that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior (or that they had anything they needed to be saved from, for that matter).

I mean, I know the answer will be zero because religion is a completely material belief system pretending to have supernatural trappings, and it spreads through culture, not transcendental bullshit, but it'd be cool to see it proven and put paid to the lie that the God of the Bible, specifically, communicates directly to individuals through visions and dreams.

---

You are talking about religion while i am talking about spirituality.
Do you know what is the difference?

The same syndrome affect also so many human being unfortunately.
They are so attached to this material-physical world that they do not want even to consider that there is a better way to live and prosper.

Said Moses the Raven as he told the animals of Sugarcandy Mountain.

Everything is moving and changing in this universe.
One day in the next reincarnation animals may well become humans so the animals of Sugarcandy Mountain may well turn into humans.
The canary syndrome that i was referring was direct to humans.
Animals may also get affected by it but because their are driven by instinct this will not affect their future.

---

Enrico wrote: They are so attached to this material-physical world that they do not want even to consider that there is a better way to live and prosper.

That is not it at all. I'm not attached to this "material-physical world" so much as I live in it. It is not as if I were given an option. This is quite simply that which we have. Whatever "better way to live and prosper" I ever find I will have to find within the confines of said world seeing it is that which exists. If you want to go playing mind games with yourself, be my guest.

You also said that "an atheist will sooner or later will come to the conclusion that God exists" Not likely. I know that he doesn't. That is why I'm an atheist. There is no "pie-in-the-sky-by-and-by-when-you-die". Look around, dude. What you see is what you get. And it's pretty damned wonderful.

I'm alive, on this really cool planet that does a pretty good job of giving us what we need. (If we don't screw it all up by being greedy and stupid, that is). I'm surrounded by fellow creatures that I rather enjoy and life is good. A better way to live and prosper would be to develop capabilities within oneself, but there's nothing "spiritual" in that. It's part of oneself.

, and that is quite good enough. We can do it. Those who keep insisting that we somehow need some non-existent super-being strike me as being the ultimate misanthropes. I just don't get it.

When you say...................We are all that we have...............how do you know that you are getting all the power that you have?
It remind me years ago when at an auction i bought a second hand lawn mower.
For sometime when i try to started it i pulled the handle many times before it started.
One day a friend of mine that he was looking at me when i tried to start the lawn mower said to me................WHY DON'T YOU START IT WITH THE KEY.
I said to him................what key are you talking about.
He said..........CAN'T YOU SEE THE HOLE WHERE YOU CAN INSERT THE KEY?
Gee i said i did not know that i can start the motor using a key.
After a few days i went to buy the right key for my lawn mower and from that time on i always use the key to start and that make the whole business much easy.
What i am trying to tell you is that we may not know all the potential that we got while imaging that what we see is the only thing that we got.

[Godscreated]

When i asked Godschild how all the people who born before Jesus or those who never heard about him could be saved he failed to reply.
Of course he can not reply considering that his knowledge is based on dogma.

I must have missed your request, sorry. Those who do not get a chance to hear about Jesus and I do mean witnessed to God will judge them on their belief there is a God and how they lived according to that belief. What all is taken into consideration by God is up to Him. Those who came before Christ, the same thing, there is no way I or anyone else could give a complete answer because we are not God and thus do not know all He has planned.

[Cyberman]

Dear Stimbo what you are referring to is the tip of the iceberg.
You got to bring up the whole of the iceberg to see the real thing and this happen by practicing spirituality.
Theory may be good but without practice you can only see the tip of the iceberg.
We got many glands that control all our existence.
The glands that allow you to feel those nice feeling and sentiment that you described are located lower then the one that i am talking about (pineal gland).
Spiritual love is at the very top of everything else.
But it takes time to realize this truth and i can understand you.

When anything I can possibly say regarding my own thoughts, feelings and experiences of my life as it pertains to reality is dismissed as casually as this then the discussion is over, as any further dialogue is rendered completely pointless. You are of course entitled to your own opinions but until you can demonstrate that this special superior truth that you are privy to is even something that exists in reality, so am I. My world - i.e. the world that all life appears to agree upon as a common, shared experience - functions perfectly fine without this mystical fluff. I'm happy to continue in my ignorance, thanks all the same.

[KichigaiNeko]

Sorry enrico. But your prosthelytizing is just so lame and immune to the wonders that atheists acknowledge and understand and our desire to know of what we DON'T understand to the point that you look rather foolish and child like in your views.

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No sale for your deity here mate

[Raven]

Whatever we have within ourselves that we may not be presently aware of is still part of the natural world as it is within ourselves.

The Buddha never spoke of God. That wasn't what he was about. He had found a way to enlightenment and shared it with whoever was interested.

'There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but when we get there we are all standing on the same peak.'

It is not on/in some other plane and it has nothing to do with any Celestial Being. It's within us. We just have to look.

[KichigaiNeko]

Try here Raven
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...=110997741

[pocaracas]

Whatever we have within ourselves that we may not be presently aware of is still part of the natural world as it is within ourselves.

The Buddha never spoke of God. That wasn't what he was about. He had found a way to enlightenment and shared it with whoever was interested.

'There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but when we get there we are all standing on the same peak.'

It is not on/in some other plane and it has nothing to do with any Celestial Being. It's within us. We just have to look.

Some people require the "god proxy" to get there, you know?