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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 4:48 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm by Pandas United.)
(June 12, 2013 at 4:04 pm)cato123 Wrote: (June 12, 2013 at 3:27 pm)Pandas United Wrote: The chief argument in his book boils down to the atrociously bad argument: "who created the creator." How disappointing for me as I came to the apex of his book thinking he was going to have some knock-dead argument against God. Nope. Just a classic misunderstanding of what the nature of God entails and the metaphysics behind how necessary beings function.
Got it. Your problem with Dawkins, and presumably others, is based on your fealty to the cosmological argument.
No, but nice try. You said to point to one of his logical absurdities- I just outlined one. If he had established a well thought out rebuttal to the cosmological arguments like the establishment of B-Theory then I would respect his attempt. Instead it's these childish arguments that have no logical coherence. He is literally saying "who created the uncreated creator?" what an absurd question. My issue with Dawkins is he obviously has no idea what he's talking about when he steps into the field of philosophy, and more specifically, metaphysics. Yet these atheists that read his stuff are outright convinced that he knows what he's talking about. It's the same crap with creationists and Ray Comfort. Stick to evolutionary biology, Rich, that's what you're good at.
All generalizations are false.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 4:54 pm by Ryantology.)
(June 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm)Pandas United Wrote: Go ahead and pick on irrational creationists like Ray Comfort. I'm sure it feels fulfilling.
And while you're at it, go for a swim in some wet water.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 4:55 pm by Pandas United.)
Quote:His reasoning may be flawed, but I can guarantee, even without reading it, that it doesn't fly in the face of 100 years of scientific evidence.
It flies in the face of 2,500 years of philosophy. Aristotle and Plato had better reasoning then him when it came to metaphysics and necessary beings.
Quote:Please show me where an atheist in the public eye makes an argument that fails on the level that Ray Comfort does. I truly would like to see that.
On the level of Ray Comfort? I don't know if that exists, his stuff is pretty preposterous. Dawkins has made some very childish and embarrassing blunders when he attempts to step into philosophy though.
All generalizations are false.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm
(June 12, 2013 at 4:48 pm)Pandas United Wrote: (June 12, 2013 at 4:04 pm)cato123 Wrote: Got it. Your problem with Dawkins, and presumably others, is based on your fealty to the cosmological argument.
No, but nice try. You said to point to one of his logical absurdities- I just outlined one. If he had established a well thought out rebuttal to the cosmological arguments like the establishment of B-Theory then I would respect his attempt. Instead it's these childish arguments that have no logical coherence. He is literally saying "who created the uncreated creator?" what an absurd question. My issue with Dawkins is he obviously has no idea what he's talking about when he steps into the field of philosophy, and more specifically, metaphysics. Stick to evolutionary biology, Rich, that's what you're good at.
Why do you think you get to get out of explaining why the creator doesn't need a creator just by defining the creator as uncreated? 'Everything needs a creator but the creator' is special pleading. Either everything needs a creator or not everything needs a creator. If there are things that don't need a creator, why can't the universe be one of them?
Can I start calling the universe the 'uncreated universe' and make you out to be deficient for talking about someone creating the uncreated universe?
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 5:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2013 at 5:04 pm by Ryantology.)
If you care to strip away the dishonesty and obfuscation, the philosophical justification for the uncreated creator can be summarized as "we have to make a special exception for God because otherwise we could not justify the belief that he created the universe".
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 5:06 pm
(June 12, 2013 at 4:48 pm)Pandas United Wrote: He is literally saying "who created the uncreated creator?" what an absurd question.
Dawkin's asked who created the creator. Your inability to answer this, understanding that it leads to an infinite causal chain, requires you to invoke the baseless assertion that there exists an uncreated creator.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 5:17 pm
(June 12, 2013 at 4:48 pm)Pandas United Wrote: He is literally saying "who created the uncreated creator?" what an absurd question.
What's so absurd about it? Christians claim that everything has to have a creator, and that creator is God. So who or what created God if everything has to have a creator? They will then use special pleading to claim that God always existed. Sorry, but if God always existed, why couldn't the universe have always existed? What exactly makes God so special that he can have this trait but nothing else can?
I'm guessing that if you think "who created the creator?" is an absurd argument then you don't really understand it.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 5:41 pm
Quote:It flies in the face of 2,500 years of philosophy.
![[Image: karl-marx-quote-philosophy-is-to-the-rea...-is-to.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.quotehd.com%2Fimagequotes%2Fauthors1%2Ftmb%2Fkarl-marx-quote-philosophy-is-to-the-real-world-as-masturbation-is-to.jpg)
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 6:09 pm
It is mental masturbation, after all.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 12, 2013 at 6:18 pm
From pineapples to the cosmological argument in 2 pages!
AF.org at its finest! 
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