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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 2:58 am
Well, thank you Fr0d0, you have restored my faith in sanity.
What I think:
I think what Inigo is saying is frippery, and circle thinking. Care to explain in terms I might possibly understand it as otherwise?
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 4:09 am
Quote:If you do, how do you justify condemning God for the same descision?
We don't have, in God, a judge condemning people for obvious behavioral excesses such as murder. We have, in God, a judge condemning people for wearing mixed fabrics and working on certain days of the week, a God who considers having lustful thoughts a crime worthy of death. A judge condemning people, according to some Christians, for the crime of simply being born and existing.
I judge God for condemning anybody, for any reason. He kills and destroys because he is less than human and cannot think to solve problems with any but the most brutal measures he can think of. There is nothing in God which resembles empathy, one of those rare traits which separates humanity from most other animal species.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 8:21 am
You belong in a special room all on your own Ryan 
Missy C
Goodness doesn't come from God. Good is God. Do you find Inigo's statement about H2O to be circular?
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm
More awesome stuff from the new guy:
(July 2, 2013 at 2:11 pm)Inigo Wrote: Morality is NOT those sensations and beliefs. Morality is the thing sensed, the thing believed. That doesn't mean it exists. THe existence of a sense of X does not entail the existence of X. Some people have a sense of god. THat doesn't mean god exists. When a sensation gives us the impression of something that doesn't really exist we call it a hallucination. Sometimes our visual sensations have nothing answering to them (such as when we are dreaming - we have visual impressions when we are dreaming, but there is nothing answering to them - a dream is a hallucination), and so on. Our senses can let us down.
Morality is the thing believed.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 3:39 pm
(July 2, 2013 at 8:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You belong in a special room all on your own Ryan
I have interacted with you enough to understand the special manner in which you concede a point.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Yours is like upside down land right Ryan? 
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 4:38 pm
(This post was last modified: July 2, 2013 at 4:39 pm by Ryantology.)
(July 2, 2013 at 4:33 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yours is like upside down land right Ryan? I do have a tendency to fall up.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 8:07 pm
(June 14, 2013 at 4:49 pm)Zarith Wrote: Common arguments for the existence of God (such as the ontological argument, the teleological argument, first cause, cosmology, etc), only get you as far as an abstract notion of some sort of god -- the kind that philosophers talk about (if you accept the arguments, that is).
If you believe that the God of the Bible really exists and has the properties ascribed to him by this book, then other means are required to justify belief in this specific God. Typically this comes down to either scriptural authority, or divine revelation, or some combination of the two (for example, belief in the truth of the message of the biblical prophets is belief in both of these things). Am I omitting anything here? Note that I am including 'personal experience with God' under the umbrella of revelation, as God revealing himself to you.
But if you are willing to accept revelation / scripture as vehicles for determining truth from falsehood, then what is the point in attempting to construct a logical argument for the existence of God in the abstract? You already have what you consider proof of his existence, and a logical argument won't prove that your particular God exists. If you are trying to convince someone, they will still have to accept scriptural authority or divine revelation, will they not?
If belief in revelation / scripture is both necessary and sufficient, and logic alone is insufficient -- why bother?
Give this man a cigar! No sense in tossing pearls at swine.
If you are not in the "Book of Life".... well that's your problem! Right?
But the question begs.... why are you, and the other anti's in the Christianity section of this forum?
Why not slap each others backsides in the forum lounge?
Quis ut Deus?
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 8:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 2, 2013 at 8:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's about as poignant a question as "Why are you on atheistforums.com?"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
July 2, 2013 at 8:44 pm
(July 2, 2013 at 8:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That's about as poignant a question as "Why are you on atheistforums.com?"
"touching" question? 
eh... enlightening pagans about Christianity. You won't see me elsewhere in this forum btw.
Quis ut Deus?
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