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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 3:36 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 1:13 am)fr0d0 Wrote: (June 19, 2013 at 7:36 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Which claims do you need me to clarify?
Your claims that the biblical text says the opposite of what it reads. It says that God is just. You say the opposite. Yet you provide no evidence in support.
Killing people who did not commit the crime they are being sentenced for is precisely the opposite of justice. I claim the Bible says one thing and shows another because this one of many examples proves it.
I keep asking you to justify killing infants and children and you have repeatedly refused to attempt this, which makes it sound an awful lot like you're avoiding a fact too obvious to even attempt to explain.
So, again: explain what conditions made it just and righteous to order soldiers to slaughter the entire population in retaliation for a transgression that almost none of them participated in. I want you to explain why you believe it is not disproportionate retribution.
Quote: No, it’s actually you who does that, I do value truth, and I have a moral obligation to do so.
If you do, then your standard for what qualifies as truthful stopped developing at about the age of 4.
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 4:02 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 1:14 am)Maelstrom Wrote: (June 20, 2013 at 1:03 am)Godschild Wrote: I tell the truth and if you do not like what the truth reveals I'm sorry but it seems to me to be your problem not mine.
It is not my problem that your version of the truth is in fact a lie. It irritates me to no end when a theist makes the claim that he alone has the truth. What truth, the one out of millions that exist? There is no credible reason for your one god out of thousands to be more real than any of the others. It makes me hurt inside that theists cannot see the truth of what religion is, the veritable antithesis to reality.
You state a lot of things yet you never bring proof, like Fr0d0 says it's about time you all backed up what you say with some proof, I know it's a pain for you to search scripture to find what you need, but if you're going to argue against God and His word there's no other place to go.
By the way don't you think the Christians here feel the same way about you, why do you think we stick around, I can certainly tell you it's not for the abuse.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 4:12 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2013 at 4:14 pm by Foxaèr.)
(June 20, 2013 at 4:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: it's about time you all backed up what you say with some proof.
Oh, the irony.
The proof that the biblical god is a dick is right there for any literate person to read. Perhaps if you did not read it with rose colored glasses or did not skip over the tidbits you dislike, it would be more apparent to you that the biblical god is a heinous psychopath unworthy of worship.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 4:29 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 2:44 am)littleendian Wrote: Fair enough, but based on evidence there is very little to assume there is much "built-in"/"off-the-shelf" purpose to this life at all. As one of my favourite German authors Hermann Hesse wrote:
"Life has exactly as much or as little purpose as we are able to give it ourselves."
I have an enormeous amount of purpose in my life, actually I love life incredibly, without the need to believe in an omnipotent being having purpose for all this beyond what I can fathom. But I guess your mileage may worry (sic) 
Hah! 
I contend that there can be no certainty either way. There is certainly evidence to consider and form belief. That belief then shapes your outlook.
I agree with Hesse's quote. I'm just not as dogmatic as you about it's application
I'm glad it's going good for you
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 5:34 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 3:36 pm)Ryantology Wrote: If you do, then your standard for what qualifies as truthful stopped developing at about the age of 4.
If Min had posted this I’d probably let it slide because it’s really all he’s got to offer, but you’re so much better than this sort of non-sense Mr. Ryantology.
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 6:18 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 5:34 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: (June 20, 2013 at 3:36 pm)Ryantology Wrote: If you do, then your standard for what qualifies as truthful stopped developing at about the age of 4.
If Min had posted this I’d probably let it slide because it’s really all he’s got to offer, but you’re so much better than this sort of non-sense Mr. Ryantology.
I don't think it's nonsensical at all. It's understandable when small children read fantasy books and believe that the stuff in it is real. When a adult reads a book describing all manner of events indistinguishable from fantasy and not only believes it but absolutely refuses to even wonder if it is any different from the thousands of other holy books and creation myths, when that person cites as evidence things like 'revelation' and 'personal experience' uncovered through methods indistinguishable from hallucinations and delusion, and insists that these are more reliable methods of detecting the truth than of pretty much any other method imaginable, then what you have is an adult whose critical thinking skills stopped developing far too early.
Revelations, visions, and holy books are not means of evidence anyone should ever rely upon because the chances are far too great that you can misinterpret what you're seeing or reading and none of it can be verified independent of the source. No reliable truth can be derived from them.
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 6:28 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 6:18 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I don't think it's nonsensical at all. It's understandable when small children read fantasy books and believe that the stuff in it is real. When a adult reads a book describing all manner of events indistinguishable from fantasy and not only believes it but absolutely refuses to even wonder if it is any different from the thousands of other holy books and creation myths, when that person cites as evidence things like 'revelation' and 'personal experience' uncovered through methods indistinguishable from hallucinations and delusion, and insists that these are more reliable methods of detecting the truth than of pretty much any other method imaginable, then what you have is an adult whose critical thinking skills stopped developing far too early.
Where have I ever appealed to personal revelation or experience? Please stop misrepresenting my position.
Quote: Revelations, visions, and holy books are not means of evidence anyone should ever rely upon because the chances are far too great that you can misinterpret what you're seeing or reading and none of it can be verified independent of the source. No reliable truth can be derived from them.
If you’re going to take this line of reasoning, then how can any reliable truth be obtained from anything you perceive through your senses?
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 6:35 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 4:12 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: (June 20, 2013 at 4:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: it's about time you all backed up what you say with some proof.
Oh, the irony.
The proof that the biblical god is a dick is right there for any literate person to read. Perhaps if you did not read it with rose colored glasses or did not skip over the tidbits you dislike, it would be more apparent to you that the biblical god is a heinous psychopath unworthy of worship.
Proof please, I know why you will not read the Bible with your eyes open, you're afraid. I skip over nothing the parts that seem to be distasteful, I pray about and search for answers. You on the other hand play the blame game, pushing blame on God for the sins of man.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 6:42 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 6:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Proof please, I know why you will not read the Bible with your eyes open, you're afraid. I skip over nothing the parts that seem to be distasteful, I pray about and search for answers. You on the other hand play the blame game, pushing blame on God for the sins of man.
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21
So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Why is belief in a higher power required?
June 20, 2013 at 7:11 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 6:42 pm)Rationalman Wrote: And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21
So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
…and what does that prove about God?
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