Can Irrational people Be Persuaded with Rationality?

[NoahsFarce]

Someone mentioned planting the seeds already. I too was one of the "irrational" people. I was a believer and furthermore, I was superstitious (yea yea, religion is a superstition too, but you know what I mean). My love of astronomy and the material contained within were the seeds.

Also, if there is an audience like on say... an Internet site... I will debate to get my point across to the crowd. I rarely debate someone in hopes of changing their views. That hardly ever happens. If it does though, AWESOME. I do this because like I said, I was "irrational" before. During my transition into non-belief, I would soak up all these debates on the Internet especially from forums like this one. So if there is a me that went through this, there has to be others. I do it for them.

[Smidgen]

I have had no luck talking to people like this.

[Gooders1002]

Is it worth talking rationality to those who are irrational and clearly do not want to think rationally?

TLDR: No, you can not speak a language to someone that they don't already know.

Personally I have had no luck talking rationality to irrational people. I have found it to be the same as believing that your words of English will be understood of someone who knows only Mandarin- it will just be frustrating for both parties, since the language of reason is so far beyond non reason.

If someone clearly is not responding to reason and evidence, they are simply talking in emotional defence, so I think the best course of action is to ask them questions about what they are feeling when their belief in God or Government or whatever it is is being questioned. How was there childhood? Were they punished for rational thinking and questioning 'authority' figures? If so, it's probably no secret why they would be so defensive now, since rational thinking was always associated with parental hostility or beatings or being attacked by peers. That fight or flight mechanism comes when you ask them about the morality of their religion or government or whatever irrational belief they hold.

If someone's experience of curiosity and rational thinking was met by someone 10 times larger than them spanking them with a huge hand - it's no mystery why they feel fight or flight when their irrational beliefs are questioned.

And if they aren't willing to open up to you and talking about what they are feeling and why they might have those feelings and instead just lash out at you - I think the best course of action is to simply leave the conversation. Being a container for their poison is harmful to both parties, you do not want to enable bad behaviour under any circumstance. But if they are interested in talking to you about why they believe what they believe, and why they are uncomfortable with reason and evidence, I think you can actually have a productive conversation.

Let me put this simply, if Irrational people could be persuaded with rationality there would be no Irrational people.
And for the fun of it:

[evenheathen]

As a somewhat new to atheism contributor, I can say that the tendency towards cognitive dissonance is easy as a believer.

I've had many conversations with atheists (as a believer) in the past, and brushing off arguments is easy when you don't have any good reason to question your beliefs.

It took having kids and wanting nothing more than to be able to be absolutely honest and sure about my answers to them when I was questioned about life to really take a good look at what it is I believe in.

You're not ready to deal with reality until reality is important enough to you to get right.

So no, reason only works for people that are ready to be reasonable. Personal beliefs are impenetrable until the armor is taken off.

[Cato]

My experience suggests that the word 'irrational' is nothing more than a malignant label used to describe a non-existent intellectual trait of someone you disagree with.

[Creed of Heresy]

I'm a good example of an irrational person being persuaded with rationality.

Let's see, let's look at my history...

Oh my yes we have some good ones in here, don't we. Ok, in my historical dossiere I am guilty of the following: Racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, scientific ignorance, fallacious thinking [still am sometimes], intolerance of mental disorders, intolerance of personal preferences of fetishes [occasionally still am in some ways], intolerance of subjectively-based methods of thinking [still am, but nowadays for good reason rather than just hating it for the sake of hating it], and intolerance of differing political views. Among others.

Funny how once I opened my mind, that list of intolerances burned away like paper fed to the campfire.

So...yes, irrational individuals CAN be persuaded with rationality. And in fact it is a good idea to do so because once exposed to rationality, an irrational person may very well learn to stand at your side.

10 years ago I probably would not have gotten along with anyone here. Funny how much a person can change when he starts thinking, hm?

[Angrboda]

I'm a good example of an irrational person being persuaded with rationality.

Let's see, let's look at my history...... Funny how once I opened my mind, that list of intolerances burned away like paper fed to the campfire.

So...yes, irrational individuals CAN be persuaded with rationality. And in fact it is a good idea to do so because once exposed to rationality, an irrational person may very well learn to stand at your side.

10 years ago I probably would not have gotten along with anyone here. Funny how much a person can change when he starts thinking, hm?

[genkaus]

Is it worth talking rationality to those who are irrational and clearly do not want to think rationally?

TLDR: No, you can not speak a language to someone that they don't already know.

Personally I have had no luck talking rationality to irrational people. I have found it to be the same as believing that your words of English will be understood of someone who knows only Mandarin- it will just be frustrating for both parties, since the language of reason is so far beyond non reason.

If someone clearly is not responding to reason and evidence, they are simply talking in emotional defence, so I think the best course of action is to ask them questions about what they are feeling when their belief in God or Government or whatever it is is being questioned. How was there childhood? Were they punished for rational thinking and questioning 'authority' figures? If so, it's probably no secret why they would be so defensive now, since rational thinking was always associated with parental hostility or beatings or being attacked by peers. That fight or flight mechanism comes when you ask them about the morality of their religion or government or whatever irrational belief they hold.

If someone's experience of curiosity and rational thinking was met by someone 10 times larger than them spanking them with a huge hand - it's no mystery why they feel fight or flight when their irrational beliefs are questioned.

And if they aren't willing to open up to you and talking about what they are feeling and why they might have those feelings and instead just lash out at you - I think the best course of action is to simply leave the conversation. Being a container for their poison is harmful to both parties, you do not want to enable bad behaviour under any circumstance. But if they are interested in talking to you about why they believe what they believe, and why they are uncomfortable with reason and evidence, I think you can actually have a productive conversation.

So, that's what happened to you? I've been wondering.

---

Good question, we will use you as a test subject in search of the answer.

So far, the answer has been negative.

[Creed of Heresy]

I'm a good example of an irrational person being persuaded with rationality.

Let's see, let's look at my history...... Funny how once I opened my mind, that list of intolerances burned away like paper fed to the campfire.

So...yes, irrational individuals CAN be persuaded with rationality. And in fact it is a good idea to do so because once exposed to rationality, an irrational person may very well learn to stand at your side.

10 years ago I probably would not have gotten along with anyone here. Funny how much a person can change when he starts thinking, hm?

...Sooo am I to infer you are implying I am a 'loony' because I am not dogmatically ignorant?

[Tonus]

Is it worth talking rationality to those who are irrational and clearly do not want to think rationally?

I have not met many people who fit that description, and when they do it's generally on one or two topics (politics and religion in particular) where they abandon rationality for dogmatic beliefs.

In any case, it's worth talking rationally to anyone. The alternative would be... ???