Why I Am Pro-Life

[Rahul]

@ITChick: *EDIT* Sorry, I misread what you said. A man's responsibility technically ends once he has ejaculated.

Wow. You are really generous to guys, Slave.

I don't agree with that. If you are the biological father you have a LOT of responsibility. And that's the way I've treated it for over a decade. I married my pregnant girlfriend (I was in love with her anyway, so it's been good), took care of her during her pregnancy, was there for the births, changed diapers, feed hungry little mouths, bathed, walked to school, taken to the doctor, etc.

I think it's kind of insulting to be considered just a sperm donor.

[ITChick]

@ITChick: *EDIT* Sorry, I misread what you said. A man's responsibility technically ends once he has ejaculated

Wow. Uhm. Yes. Nope, I have no response to that.

*runs away from the crazy lady *

[NoraBrimstone]

@Nora: You specified the term punishment. If you think that a woman carrying a pregnancy to term is a form of punishment for having sex, then a jail sentence for a man who kills a child while drink driving is his punishment. I don't view it as punishment. I view it as taking responsibility for your actions and more importantly for reckless behavior that results in innocent life being taken as a direct result.

Having a child you don't even want, can't afford, or don't want to/can't look after is far from "taking responsibility for your actions" it's completely irresponsible and stupid.

You accuse these women of "reckless behaviour" then say they should have parenthood forced on them? Really? You think they should be parents if they can't even figure out how buirth control and condoms work?

[Slave]

No Nora, I don't believe this is about punishing women.

Oh, horseshit. You have yet to demonstrate where someone elses decision on this has any impact on you at all. Who gives a shit what you "believe?" You are trying to enforce your will on others.

I am a woman. I am biologically geared to bear children. Men can't get pregnant. Perhaps if they could, I'd pin more responsibility on them.

Wow. You are really generous to guys, Slave.

I don't agree with that. If you are the biological father you have a LOT of responsibility. And that's the way I've treated it for over a decade. I married my pregnant girlfriend (I was in love with her anyway, so it's been good), took care of her during her pregnancy, was there for the births, changed diapers, feed hungry little mouths, bathed, walked to school, taken to the doctor, etc.

I think it's kind of insulting to be considered just a sperm donor.

It's not about being generous; it is what I view as fair and just. It isn't a popular opinion, I grant you that. The good news is most men would take responsibility for whatever children they bear, and by law they are also required to provide financial assistance for their children whether they want them or not. It's funny how these women are crying out about women's rights to their personal autonomy, but if a man impregnates a woman and she chooses to have the child, he has no say. So where are his rights? He doesn't have any. So I think that if a man accidentally impregnates a woman, he should not be obligated to provide support for it.

*runs away from the crazy lady Smile*

Don't run! I have cookies! COOKIES AND CATS, LOTS OF CATS!?!?!!

Having a child you don't even want, can't afford, or don't want to/can't look after is far from "taking responsibility for your actions" it's completely irresponsible and stupid.

And having sex without protection - or just having sex at all - knowing that you don't want and cannot provide for a child should one occur as a result of your actions, is responsible? Yeah, right lady. Sorry but I have control over my own body, as do you. Contrary to popular belief, we can control the outcome of our sex lives. It ain't just 'the man' keeping us down.

You accuse these women of "reckless behaviour" then say they should have parenthood forced on them? Really? You think they should be parents if they can't even figure out how buirth control and condoms work?

I never said 'should'. For christ sake what have I said already? Read maybe? I said that the choice should be there. But the ethical implications should be considered. Since I disagree with the notion that human life does not begin at conception, it stands to reason that a woman should take every precaution to not get pregnant unless pregnancy is her end goal in mind.

I'm not imposing my will on others. Where have I said that abortion should be illegal? Find me the quote and I'll concede.

[NoraBrimstone]

So... What about rape? Where are your bullshit "ethics" then?

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And having sex without protection - or just having sex at all - knowing that you don't want and cannot provide for a child should one occur as a result of your actions, is responsible? Yeah, right lady. Sorry but I have control over my own body, as do you. Contrary to popular belief, we can control the outcome of our sex lives. It ain't just 'the man' keeping us down.

So people who don't want kids should just be celibate? That's fucking insane.

[ITChick]

It's not about being generous; it is what I view as fair and just. It isn't a popular opinion, I grant you that. The good news is most men would take responsibility for whatever children they bear, and by law they are also required to provide financial assistance for their children whether they want them or not. It's funny how these women are crying out about women's rights to their personal autonomy, but if a man impregnates a woman and she chooses to have the child, he has no say. So where are his rights? He doesn't have any. So I think that if a man accidentally impregnates a woman, he should not be obligated to provide support for it.

Thanks for expanding a bit on your statement. I do think it is unfair that guys are forced to pay if a woman decides to keep a child and they do not want to. It is a bit more tricky if the guy wants to keep it and the woman does not. In that case I would say that the person who will be affected the most has the decision (the woman).

Don't run! I have cookies! COOKIES AND CATS, LOTS OF CATS!?!?!!

I do like cookies! *crawls forward cautiously*.

I never said 'should'. For christ sake what have I said already? Read maybe? I said that the choice should be there. But the ethical implications should be considered. Since I disagree with the notion that human life does not begin at conception, it stands to reason that a woman should take every precaution to not get pregnant unless pregnancy is her end goal in mind.

I'm not imposing my will on others. Where have I said that abortion should be illegal? Find me the quote and I'll concede.

Ok, I can respect that. You think that they should keep it, but won't enforce it on anyone. We are all allowed to have our own opinion.

Out of interest though: would this make a difference in who you vote for? (In other words, would you vote for someone who stands against abortion and will make it illegal)

Edit: fixed some of the spelling mistakes. Stupid fat fingers!

[Slave]

So... What about rape? Where are your bullshit "ethics" then?

I would hope that given that we live in an age where we are taught about birth control and the risks associated with sex, that we also be aware that every action we take has a consequence, and that pregnancy should be an accepted consequence of sex. That old chestnut, 'with rights come responsibilities'. People have a right to use their body as they wish and no one here is arguing to the contrary. But just as we take precautions when driving in a car, and are held liable for any lives we take with varying severity of sentences depending on the matter in which we take said life on the road, so should we start taking responsibility for the lives we take as a result of having unwanted pregnancies and aborting them. I disagree outright that this is squarely a women's rights issue, and feel that those who argue this are avoiding the crux altogether. This also isn't about demonizing women (though that is the popular argument it seems, and has become an accepted rhetoric unfortunately) and to vilify them because fuck women. As a woman, it is your duty to take precautions and practice safe sex. I'm not talking about rape here either, before someone decides to jump down my throat and call me a pawn of the patriarchy. I'm talking about statements such as these: "Oh yeah, it's the woman's fault that the guy she slept with didn't like to use condoms", ergo she was well within her right to abort the baby. It is the woman's fault if she falls pregnant, all cases of forced sex aside.

So people who don't want kids should just be celibate? That's fucking insane.

Are you dense? If people don't want kids, either use contraception + morning after pill, or if the former are unavailable, yes, abstain from sex.

You live in the UK. You can get prescribed all manner of birth control and have access to the morning after pill, too. If you fall pregnant but didn't desire pregnancy, what's your excuse?

---

Ok, I can respect that. You think that they should keep it, but won't engorce it on anyone. We are all allowed to have out own opinion.

Out of interest though: would this make a difference in who you vote for? (In other words, would you vote for someone who stands against abortion and will make it illegal)

The option needs to be there for women who need it. I have only ever brought into question the ethics regarding the issue and why abortion is IMO a human rights issue.

I don't vote (or at least, I haven't yet). It would depend of course. I wouldn't vote for a member of the BNP party if they had a stance similar to mine on abortion, for example.

[Rahul]

It's not about being generous; it is what I view as fair and just. It isn't a popular opinion, I grant you that. The good news is most men would take responsibility for whatever children they bear, and by law they are also required to provide financial assistance for their children whether they want them or not. It's funny how these women are crying out about women's rights to their personal autonomy, but if a man impregnates a woman and she chooses to have the child, he has no say. So where are his rights? He doesn't have any. So I think that if a man accidentally impregnates a woman, he should not be obligated to provide support for it.

You're confusing.

You are Pro-Life and say that if a woman has sex and gets pregnant you believe they have to take responsibility for that and give birth to that child.

But if a guy has sex and gets a girl pregnant they shouldn't have any responsibility for their actions?

Now of course I believe in a woman's right to make the choice to abort or not. She's the one that will be carrying the child to term. We can't help that. Nature isn't fair but these are the hands we are dealt. Woman's body, woman's choice. Guys have to man up and deal with her decision either way.

[fr0d0]

But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...ness-arise

As far as I'm concerned until consciousness clicks on no person exists. Just a biologically maturing fetus with no real mind. No consciousness, no human. Just a potential future human.

Your cited article doesn't support your statement (bolded). So your statement remains your opinion, which is contrary to scientific consensus.

_________

Males sure are persued in law for child care so there is some responsibility enforced.

Interesting news article today about monogamy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...37095.html

In those species where monogamy became established, there was a corresponding decrease in infanticide as males guarded and protected their females and their offspring,

Mammals run a particularly high risk of infanticide because nursing females do not ovulate when lactating and so are effectively sterile for that period. It is in the genetic interests of rival males to therefore kill a female’s offspring to force her to begin ovulation, which happens for instance in lions.

[Slave]

You're confusing.

You are Pro-Life and say that if a woman has sex and gets pregnant you believe they have to take responsibility for that and give birth to that child.

But if a guy has sex and gets a girl pregnant they shouldn't have any responsibility for their actions?

A man should most definitely take responsibility for a child he fathers but it depends entirely on circumstance. If he took precautions himself to prevent any chance of pregnancy, yet the woman falls pregnant, I don't agree that he should have responsibility to it. As the way I see it, a woman is biologically geared for pregnancy, so it is her obligation to ensure pregnancy doesn't occur if it is not her will. And we have the means to prevent it so really there's no excuse.

Now of course I believe in a woman's right to make the choice to abort or not. She's the one that will be carrying the child to term. We can't help that. Nature isn't fair but these are the hands we are dealt. Woman's body, woman's choice. Guys have to man up and deal with her decision either way.

Why does a guy have to 'man up' in this instance but telling a woman to 'woman up' and take responsibility is sexist? You don't see the contradiction?

It is as simple as this. If you're not ready to assume responsibility for a child, take every precaution to prevent pregnancy, or don't have sex. This counts for men and women. If you fall pregnant because you or your partner didn't use enough protection, or none at all, then 'man' and 'woman' up about it for the sake of human life. Take responsibility for your actions.