A new understanding to an old premise

[Neo-Scholastic]

Whether we exist in a matrix or as a brain in a vat has no bearing on anything at all. You play the hand you are dealt. If you live in a Matrix that IS your reality. For that matter, how does Neo know that Morpheous didn't give him a hallucinagenic that made him believe he was ejected from the Matrix?

[Jackalope]

Whether we exist in a matrix or as a brain in a vat has no bearing on anything at all. You play the hand you are dealt. If you live in a Matrix that IS your reality. For that matter, how does Neo know that Morpheous didn't give him a hallucinagenic that made him believe he was ejected from the Matrix?

He doesn't, of course. At some point, there is a matter of making a personal decision as to what we trust (or not).

[Angrboda]

Whether we exist in a matrix or as a brain in a vat has no bearing on anything at all. You play the hand you are dealt. If you live in a Matrix that IS your reality. For that matter, how does Neo know that Morpheous didn't give him a hallucinagenic that made him believe he was ejected from the Matrix?

He doesn't, of course. At some point, there is a matter of making a personal decision as to what we trust (or not).

Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil' is a fitting counterpoint to this.

[Faith No More]

But why would god have to put us through the matrix to test us? Regardless of whether we were staring down the barrel of a gun(hell), an omniscient deity knows what is in our "hearts" without making us go through the matrix. A test from an omniscient god is superfluous.

But please, continue with the ad hoc explanations.

[Bad Writer]

God (traditional sterotype aside) is by defination is a transdimensional being.

As long as it's your own definition, I'm tracking ya. I don't know how you figured this out about him, but please continue.

...if He is able to offer an eternity with Him or an eternity in Hell (which either way is still another realm) then that means we (or at least apart of us) are transdimensional beings as well.

Hmmm...I counted a few assumptions here. I especially liked the one about how we are transdimensional beings because apparently Hell is another realm or dimension or what have you.

So the question would then become what is this reality?

The one we exist in. It doesn't need a name other than "reality", so if you're taking this where I think you're taking this...

This for the lack of a better term, This 'reality' then becomes "the matrix."

And you did. You went there.

The key difference between the movie version of the matrix and the one we live in is that death here does not result in death in the "real world." When one dies here, we simply wake up in the real world.(Absent from the body present with the Lord.) We wake up to eternity and the choice we made here. God simply holds us accountable to the choice we made.

We're held accountable to a test we didn't submit ourselves to? What a bastard! And all we get in order to pass this test are little clues and hints here and there? This guy God is a dick!

Why is any of this important?

That's only a question we should ask ourselves if any of this was demonstrably true.

I give us proper perspective. Life, death, pain, happiness, all of it in this life is really meaningless when view from an eternal perspective. So when someone asks why did God allow that child to die or how can a loving God command the death of women and children?? What are they really asking? How can God wake that person from the Matrix sooner than the rest of us? Why do we have to suffer here for 70, 80 or 90 years when that person get to wake to reality only after 9 or 10? Why wouldn't God make that person suffer a life time as I want and wish to suffer for a long life?

You're as sick and twisted as that god of yours!

If you remember the matrix was a prision, not saying there aren't those who have made prision their home.. My question is what does it say about those who hate or curse a God who end a prision sentence earily? Why is 'fairness' based on 'prision' rules?

So you're equating God putting us on earth as him sentencing us to a prison term...for a crime we never committed? Who the fuck are you, Drich? Where do you get off telling us that we're all criminals? If you really loved your fellow man, then you could start by not condemning us all in your head because of what you think your imaginary friend is telling you. Come down off of Bullshit mountain and join society, my friend!

[Tonus]

For that matter, how does Neo know that Morpheous didn't give him a hallucinagenic that made him believe he was ejected from the Matrix?

It would've made for a better sequel than the dreck that we wound up with.

[Jackalope]

For that matter, how does Neo know that Morpheous didn't give him a hallucinagenic that made him believe he was ejected from the Matrix?

It would've made for a better sequel than the dreck that we wound up with.

There were no sequels to the original.

There were no sequels to the original.

There were no sequels to the original.

........

[Drich]

But why would god have to put us through the matrix to test us? Regardless of whether we were staring down the barrel of a gun(hell), an omniscient deity knows what is in our "hearts" without making us go through the matrix. A test from an omniscient god is superfluous.

But please, continue with the ad hoc explanations.

Asked and answered in post number 9 old sport.

[Esquilax]

Maybe the 'deficiency' is ours and not God's. In that we need a space/deception that allows us to make an uninfluenced honest decision about our heart true desire, as to the nature of where we want to spend eternity.

Except that we were created by god, making any design flaws or deficiencies we do have his responsibility in the end. If he's the creator of all things, he's also responsible for the choices he makes in doing so.

I love that your answer here is that, essentially, god just wants to deceive us because making informed decisions would allow us to use logic and pick the choice that's best for us, though. That's awesome.

"They're making decisions that aren't based on irrational emotions and the intrinsic pride I gave them so they could make the wrong decisions and I could punish them?! Hell no! Matrix!"

Think about it. if you got to stare down the pit of hell and then look to boundless treasures (God's Glory) God had to offer. anyone with any desire for self perservation and the ablity to lie to them self would choose God over hell. Then the question becomes how long will they be content with God before their true feelings would surface? a year? a Billion years? A trillion years? Even after 900 trillion years we would not have put a dent in eternity. We do know by Satan's example that at some point we will surcumb to pride as he did and will want that seperation and will be willing to risk Hell for it.

This does raise a good question, though the reasoning behind it is a tad specious: can a person be removed from heaven and sent to hell? Or rather, when in heaven, would a person still have the kinds of desires and thoughts that would land him or her in hell at all? The bible kind of hints that it's a place where negativity just can't survive, right?

So why not place all of us in the realm/matrix hidden from the automatic knoweledge of God's Glory or the absolute terrors of Hell, and allow our hearts the 80 or so years it needs to simply play out what it really wants. (Give those who want to know the knoweledge to make the desision they have been given and allow the rest to surround themselves with whatever they wish.)

Seriously, what does your god have against people having complete information before they make choices?!

So when you stand before God on the day of your final judgement and He judges you sheep or Goat, Wheat or Weed, yu will know beyond doubt that his judgement is absolute and just.

No, because tyrants do a lot of judging too. If I reject the criteria by which I am being judged- and I do, based on your ad hoc rationalizations here- then I'm still entirely capable of seeing this judgment for the farce that it is.

Again God could created us and seperated us then and there, but He gave us this life to prove to ourselves who we are so when we find ourselves in Heaven or Hell we wont be able to lie to ourselves and say we are more than what we are.

Which is essentially you saying not to aspire to anything. Would not people with knowledge of heaven from the outset, knowing that it's there and that there's a benevolent creator god with a higher moral standing to aspire to, work to better themselves to make themselves worthy of this?

I mean, you already think that: in your view, christians have the knowledge of god, and do good deeds to put themselves at heaven's gates, so to you, that's what knowledge of heaven does. Why are we being kept from it, in that case?

And before you say a single damn word about free will, let me remind you that you just said earlier that people can have knowledge of heaven, lie to themselves in order to go there, and still end up breaking for their pride in the end.

In my orginal post I did make reference to BCV that points to several verses that seperate Mind Body Spirit and soul. Are you asking me to provide book Chapter and verse or are you looking for something else?

Evidence for that transdimensional matrix waffle, I think.

[Drich]

As long as it's your own definition, I'm tracking ya. I don't know how you figured this out about him, but please continue.

Is Heaven ( where God lives) of this world? Is it s physical place? Is Hell a place on the map you can go to? Even if you had a star ship could you plot a course to heaven or hell? No. It does not exist in this realm. These places transcend the 3 dimensions we know how to currently navigate. Which places them and god on a plain of existence we do not currently understand. Hence Trans-dimensional beings. (God and the part of us that was made in the image of God is. Our soul.)

Hmmm...I counted a few assumptions here. I especially liked the one about how we are transdimensional beings because apparently Hell is another realm or dimension or what have you.

then by all mean please provide the GPS coordinates to Heaven or hell, so we can dispel this theory and provide the rest of you with the "proof" of God you all have been looking for.

And you did. You went there.

I prefaced the OP with a logical link back to the matrix, did you really think your 'revelation' was not intended?

We're held accountable to a test we didn't submit ourselves to? What a bastard! And all we get in order to pass this test are little clues and hints here and there? This guy God is a dick!

What makes you think you did not submit to this test? Is you memory your only bit-o-evidence? If so are you saying you did not exist in any capacity before you can physically remember existing? What did you do before your earliest memory? Did you not exist? Are you sure? Why? Now how are you sure your soul did not exist before your body did? How can you be sure if you did not have the hardware to log a physical memory?

You're as sick and twisted as that god of yours!

moohahaha

So you're equating God putting us on earth as him sentencing us to a prison term...for a crime we never committed?

crime is a term that describes a sin against society. And your right some of us live an entire life and do not commit a single crime. But all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I did not call you a criminal, you sport are a sinner like the rest of humanity.

Who the fuck are you, Drich?

do you want a bio and an address?

Where do you get off telling us that we're all criminals?

criminal is your word old sport, I simply identified all of us myself included as sinners as the bible has.

If you really loved your fellow man, then you could start by not condemning us all in your head because of what you think your imaginary friend is telling you. Come down off of Bullshit mountain and join society, my friend!

i would counter by pointing out that society is a fair bit bigger than the small hedge you find acceptable. Because society does indeed include those who love and worship God.