(July 26, 2013 at 1:38 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I have the words of Captain James T. Kirk. Is that enough?
It depends on whether or not we are having a discussion about anything star trek. If we were then his quote would be law in that universe. Like wise as we are discussing the God of the bible and how His word pretains to this world, This universe His word is the cornerstone that ends doubt.
Quote:That's the funny thing here, and I'm glad you brought up this point. You see, the Mormons don't actually have any proof for this bit of doctrine. At the same time, neither do the Christians for theirs.
Actually we do. It's just been dismissed by those who have been taught to think they know better.
Quote:Why not? The process for believing in any other gods is exactly the same. Why the Christian god and not Odin?
Because God makes a set of promises in the bible (as do other gods) and the God of the bible came through for me on His promises. As I am not to have any other 'gods' before Him, So I stopped searching. That is why I do not worship odin or anything else that i may not have researched.
Quote:Why do I need proof for your claim? It's your claim, you need to back it up.
Not my claim, God's claim. Inturn He needs (and will)to back it up. "My claim" would begin and end upon a description of what God has done for me personally, for that is all 'I need prove.'
Quote: You're asking for something I don't even need to give, which means you, like many of the other Christians here, don't understand the Philosophical nor the Legal definition of "Burden of Proof". Before we move on, you need to look that up.
Your basic misunderstanding of Christian theology shifts the burden of 'proof' from God to the indivisual Christian. We have only been charged with giving an account of the joy that we hold in us. Not to provide you with 'proof' God Himself has commanded you to get directly from Him.
Quote:Instead of just telling me that I ignored something, perhaps you should enlighten me, and I'll have more reason to heed your words. Also, in light of what I said, the fallacy is not mislabled. Stop with the bullshit and the stall tactics because you have a lot here to answer to.
Then drop the pomp and circumstance and simply ask your questions.
(July 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Oh, so 'God' created the entire universe as a giant 'Soul Filtering Machine".
Maybe not the whole universe, but this life this world?? Yes Christ teaches this over and over in His parables. I can give you some examples if you like: Vine/Vine branches, seperating Sheep, from the Goats, the Wheat from the weeds, the Wheat from the chaff, He compared our christian lives to wheat being put through the threshing process (Seperating the seed from the stalk) there are at least 1/2 a dozen or more parables seperating/sifting/choosing the elect from what is not desired.
Quote:So, 'God' designed us with a deficiency, knowing all along the many of us will not make it past the Soul Selector 2000? Why would he do this?
In my other thread I ask what if we (all souls) were apart of the 1/3 of Heavens population who rebelled with lucifer and were cast from Heaven. (remember they were not cast to Hell they/'we' were cast to earth.) What if we have been falling from heaven in every generation since Adam?
What if we were sent here because we begged God for a second chance, so he creates this 'Matrix' to give us one. Sacrifices His own son to make that second chance possiable... That would make those who seek God in this life (apart from the know Glory of God) one who truly wants to spend eternity with God. Subsequently that would make everyone else those who want to be eternally seperated from God.
-Or- you could go with the standard 'free will' arguement to answer your question. either way they point to us sifting or seperating ourselves into two camps as Christ describes.
Quote:I once read a biography of Alfred Hitchcock. In it he described his film making process, in which every scene, camera shot, line, etc was already designed by Hitch before filming even started. If the movie turned out bad, he didn't blame his characters, he blamed himself as the designer of the film. But yet your god is not to blame for his creations? And that doesn't sound silly to you?
It completely depends on whether or not you are willing to only see the point and purpose of this life as the filming of an alfred hitchcock movie.
(July 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm)whateverist Wrote: (July 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: So, 'God' designed us with a deficiency, knowing all along the many of us will not make it past the Soul Selector 2000? Why would he do this?
I once read a biography of Alfred Hitchcock. In it he described his film making process, in which every scene, camera shot, line, etc was already designed by Hitch before filming even started. If the movie turned out bad, he didn't blame his characters, he blamed himself as the designer of the film. But yet your god is not to blame for his creations? And that doesn't sound silly to you?
Let me try to answer this for you, Drich. I'm going to go with "god works in strange and miraculous ways" but maybe you'll surprise us.
For some that answer is enough, for others like myself I want to know more so I ask God to show me.. (This is something we are allow even encouraged to do.) We do not know because we have not A/S/K.
(July 26, 2013 at 6:11 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: My point was that it isn't transdimensional then, it's just removing that which is producing a powerful illusion on the "real" you.
What is real? Start the clip @ 1 min 30 seconds.
http://youtu.be/WnEYHQ9dscY
The reality of this Martix or the one being described in the Movie are repersentations or rather different version of reality, that run paralell with each other with no physical way to conect one reality with the other.
God, Heaven, Hell (and I am suggesting our souls) exist in a reality outside of this one we physically live in.
Merium webester includes this defination to Dimension: a level of existence or consciousness
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dimension
Which make the Movie 'Matrix reality' a dimension as per Morpheus' defination, and it make their 'real world' reality another dimension.
Like wise Our REAL Word Reality fits the defination as a dimension, which make God's Home, His plain of Existance another. The term Extra-dimensional describes a being who does not reside in this world.
When Pilate ask Christ if the rumors the Jews were spreading were true (If He was a King) Christ answered Him: “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If it did, my servants would fight so that I would not be handed over to the Jewish leaders. No, my kingdom is not an earthly one.”
Which makes the God of the bible an EXTRADIMENSIONAL Being!
Quote:You said the horrors were meaningless with respect to eternity, which also means they're pointless.
Your statement, now prove it. Why does Meaningless in this specific instance coinside with pointless?
If you try and use me or my words again as a point of reference understand and know I have further clarified my position and said the Meaningless did not mean pointless in what is being discussed. So again the burden of proof is on you to show that all we experience is indeed meaningless and pointless, apart from what I said as nothing I said applies to your arguement.
-or
we can simply move on, I am not keeping score.
[drich=quote]Again just because we are not justified in assigning 'moral value' to what happens to us in this life does not mean what we do in this life is pointless.
I have described in detail what the point of this life is.[/quote]
Quote:You specifically said that it is meaningless to ask why with regard to the horrors of life in this scenario, then tried to assign moral 'value' to it. Lol.
You have created a weak Straw man. Read what I said again. I pointed out that one
can not assign a moral value to the trageities of this life.
Quote:Answer your own question much? If we don't have any knowledge of giving consent, it cannot be the case that I myself gave my consent, rather than some pre-existing entity who would not in fact be me, but a different identity.
So if you gave consent to a surgery and signed a document, but woke up having no memory of giving consent then are you saying by your ablity to reason it is the same as not giving consent at all?
Your memory is such a weak standard at best we have a clear 10 year window into the past, but even so it is often times scewed by our emotions and ablity to lie to self.
