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Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm
If an equivalent to today's NSA scandal broke out say 40 years ago, would there have been as much hubbub about it like there is today? I'm wondering if the privacy concerns that a substantial number of people hold today is a recent phenomenon.
I'm watching old WW2 documentaries this week. I'm seeing that the definition of "liberty" espoused in US propaganda films probably had a very different meaning than it does now. "Fight for liberty" while we're putting Japanese American citizens in camps, segregating blacks, performing eugenics, etc.
So while NSA scandal is alarming, perhaps we should take the outrage to be a promising sign.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 4, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Man...same shit...different year.
Senator McCarthy and his witch hunts weren't universally praised, even then. Just the specter of communism kept many quiet...for fear of being blacklisted.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 4, 2013 at 3:32 pm
If your point is that "people are full of shit," TEGH, you are correct. They are.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm
(August 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: If an equivalent to today's NSA scandal broke out say 40 years ago, would there have been as much hubbub about it like there is today? I'm wondering if the privacy concerns that a substantial number of people hold today is a recent phenomenon.
I'm watching old WW2 documentaries this week. I'm seeing that the definition of "liberty" espoused in US propaganda films probably had a very different meaning than it does now. "Fight for liberty" while we're putting Japanese American citizens in camps, segregating blacks, performing eugenics, etc.
So while NSA scandal is alarming, perhaps we should take the outrage to be a promising sign. Why really be bothered with the NSA demanding call records, while disregarding the reason why these records actually exist in the first place?
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 4, 2013 at 7:51 pm
(August 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: If an equivalent to today's NSA scandal broke out say 40 years ago, would there have been as much hubbub about it like there is today? I'm wondering if the privacy concerns that a substantial number of people hold today is a recent phenomenon.
I'm watching old WW2 documentaries this week. I'm seeing that the definition of "liberty" espoused in US propaganda films probably had a very different meaning than it does now. "Fight for liberty" while we're putting Japanese American citizens in camps, segregating blacks, performing eugenics, etc.
So while NSA scandal is alarming, perhaps we should take the outrage to be a promising sign.
There is no equvalent.
This scandal was made possible through the internet.
The equivalent might be the Stasi or Tcheka or Gestapo and such things can only come into existance in a undemocratic society.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 5, 2013 at 5:13 pm
Wiretaps were nothing new in the 40's, but I think people would have been screaming bloody murder if they found out that every call they made was being monitored. Same with the mail if they found out their letters were being read.
I think most people today knew that information was being collected all along but are only alarmed now that: 1. Government officials have admitted to it and 2. The scale of the collection is so massive.
Now with the reveal of the NSA and DEA cooperation, there's the fear that anyone who scored some weed at some point will see jail time. I think the ability to get away with little things here and there is what most people are afraid of losing.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 5, 2013 at 5:46 pm
We have no privacy. Get over it. The concern should be about how the information is used to coerce and manipulate us. Or how we can use that information against those who would try to coerce and manipulate others.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 5, 2013 at 6:07 pm
(August 5, 2013 at 5:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: We have no privacy.
And yet, we still have a right to privacy, enshrined in common law.
Are we no longer a nation of laws? If we've "progressed" to where such things (rights) can be done away with by executive fiat, then I would submit that in fact, we are no longer - and that there can be no claim to legitimacy in our government if that is the case.
I don't know about you, Chad, but I'd rather have a transparent national discussion about these issues before we throw it all in the shitter.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 6, 2013 at 10:40 am
(August 5, 2013 at 6:07 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: And yet, we still have a right to privacy, enshrined in common law...Are we no longer a nation of laws?...there can be no claim to legitimacy in our government if that is the case. What makes you think the USA is a country of laws anymore? Remember "if congress refuses to act, I will." I've given up on politics.
In essence you are correct. Rights are inherent to our humanity. But the 200+ year experiment has ended. The tyrants have won. I choose to shrug.
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RE: Are we more concerned about privacy nowadays?
August 6, 2013 at 1:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 6, 2013 at 1:00 pm by Creed of Heresy.)
(August 6, 2013 at 10:40 am)ChadWooters Wrote: (August 5, 2013 at 6:07 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: And yet, we still have a right to privacy, enshrined in common law...Are we no longer a nation of laws?...there can be no claim to legitimacy in our government if that is the case. What makes you think the USA is a country of laws anymore? Remember "if congress refuses to act, I will." I've given up on politics.
In essence you are correct. Rights are inherent to our humanity. But the 200+ year experiment has ended. The tyrants have won. I choose to shrug.
It's amusing how often and easily the religious surrender to tyranny. It's almost like they're numb to the sensation.
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