Atheists are mentally ill

[pocaracas]

So I'm saying to you what you're seeing here comes from God it's not something we invented.

Why can't the English.... learn.... to speak!?!

Evidence wise there you go you can see it for yourself.

See what, where?
Are you aware that many people have looked their entire lives... they have honestly looked.... and found nothing??
Many people are looking right now and finding nothing.
Many people are looking and finding some spiritual thing... what we, in the know, like to call, a self-delusion.
Nowadays, no one has direct contact with any god, as it is claimed to have happened in the tales of holy books, sometime in the past.
People claim some psychological connection, but that's indistinguishable from self-delusion... and then you have Occam flashing his Razor...

How can you tell if you really are deluded?
Well, first figure out if you were indoctrinated as a child... that indoctrination, on some people, makes them accept any claim from authoritative figures... as these people grow up, those claims are never challenged and, even if some outside entity does challenge them, such challenge is automatically dismissed as fallacious, and your brain works in overtime attempting to come up with some cop out of that particular challenge.
Can you recognize yourself in any of this description?

Ah, but no... you were not indoctrinated... your parents didn't make you go to church on Sundays... They just had a few crosses lying around the house, the world around you hinted heavily on the notion of J.C. and god and the ghost thing... Something happens in your life that you can't explain away and.... you take the easy way... goddidit.

Still don't recognize yourself?

Well, then, do tell us how you came to be aware of the existence of a god. And then, how you got the impression that a particular god was the real one.

[Chas]

No matter how many times you repeat the erroneous statement, it does not become true simply by verbatim.

You didn't get your morality, you didn't get your culture from science, I'm sorry about this.

And I didn't get from the Bible or a church, either.

[Ryantology]

Human racial, gender, equality, compassion for the poor and the needy, a desire to bring social justice and equality, pacifism, not taking revenge, separation of Church and state was a little of Jesus's original idea (render unto Caesar), fighting against oppressors and injustice, charity, caring for the weak, treating others with respect even if they are different from you. And so on.

Christianity invented not a single one of these moral elements. It is accurate to say that I share moral qualities which are (in theory if rarely in practice) Christian. Let us also not forget that Christianity is derivative of a religion which espouses many of the opposite traits, calling for death, slavery and persecution in many forms, and does not repudiate any of those teachings.

So I'm saying to you what you're seeing here comes from God it's not something we invented. Though we did build the Christian religion/s around it. Evidence wise there you go you can see it for yourself.

Morality (and human civilization, which could not exist without moral concepts) predates your God by millennia.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

I resent the arrogance you have every time you dismiss the east. I assure you plenty of people live outside of your country. I grew up in asia, in a muslim country, went to a chinese school and was taught chinese philosophy's idea of morality. Plenty of people live there. Your god isn't a big deal there. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism are the big religions in my region. Christianity is big is some countries, sure, but not mine. Are we without morals? Do we not exist?

[Captain Colostomy]

PBB, no doubt Christian missionaries at least indirectly influenced Confucious and Lao Tzu. Surely.



/sarcasm

[Sword of Christ]

Evidence wise there you go you can see it for yourself.

See what, where?
Are you aware that many people have looked their entire lives... they have honestly looked.... and found nothing??[/quote]

They will find something if they want to find it.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." Matthew 7:7

Many people are looking right now and finding nothing.
Many people are looking and finding some spiritual thing... what we, in the know, like to call, a self-delusion.

Atheism/naturalism would be the delusion if God exists and the evidence for God is right there in the universe and present in our lives. It's essentially hidden in plain sight, if you want to see it you can and if you don't you will claim God is a "self delusion" as you just did there. You don't necessarily just get to claim your opinion of something and then it's true though, you will need to back this claim up with something.

Nowadays, no one has direct contact with any god, as it is claimed to have happened in the tales of holy books, sometime in the past.
People claim some psychological connection, but that's indistinguishable from self-delusion... and then you have Occam flashing his Razor...

Yes people have direct contact with God through the Holy Spirit. I'd argue that atheists have the exact same contact, certainly as they seem to place great importance on morality and they share the same awe at the universe.

How can you tell if you really are deluded?
Well, first figure out if you were indoctrinated as a child... that indoctrination, on some people, makes them accept any claim from authoritative figures... as these people grow up, those claims are never challenged and, even if some outside entity does challenge them, such challenge is automatically dismissed as fallacious, and your brain works in overtime attempting to come up with some cop out of that particular challenge.

Pffft may as well say you were "indoctrinated" into atheism as a child. But we live in a Christian culture here, Christian/Christs values are our values. If you want your child to be 100% free from all religion/belief then raise them chained in a basement without talking to them for 18 years.

Can you recognize yourself in any of this description?

I wasn't any more indoctrinated into anything than you were. Unless you had the chained in a basement treatment. But you seem to be able to speak English so I assume you weren't.

Ah, but no... you were not indoctrinated... your parents didn't make you go to church on Sundays...

Well they didn't, they never went to church or had any real interest in it. I come from a thoroughly secular family. They will go to church for funeral or to have a look around but that's about it.

They just had a few crosses lying around the house, the world around you hinted heavily on the notion of J.C. and god and the ghost thing... Something happens in your life that you can't explain away and.... you take the easy way... goddidit.

Pffft there were a couple of Buddha figures laying around the house nothing that had anything to do with Christianity at all. No I came to the truth through my own reason. Yes so I'm from a Christian/Western culture like yourself but I think we have the best world culture and we achieved the most, this I would use as evidence that there is something more in it than superstition. It's still a very flawed culture but we can put that down to the nature of human sin.

Still don't recognize yourself?

Well no not really, I am a freethinker even if I came to the other conclusion based on the evidence. I am open to other religions as well as I recognize the common strands in there that I would say will come from the Holy Spirit. I'm fairly keen on the Eastern religions and philosophies and see parallels between those found in Christianity and Jesus teachings.

Well, then, do tell us how you came to be aware of the existence of a god. And then, how you got the impression that a particular god was the real one.

I think Christianity has the strongest evidence for it, particularly the resurrection and empty tomb which will of course had to be based on something. You can say it was some kind of mass hallucination or conspiracy if you like but it's still better than anything the other religions have. I also think Christianity based on the true teachings of Christ has had the most influence and has done the most good. I'm also impressed by the philosophical and scientific arguments for God as a designer and arguments for morality and human freewill.

[Ryantology]

They will find something if they want to find it.

Out here in the real world, this is known as confirmation bias.

[Sword of Christ]

Out here in the real world, this is known as confirmation bias.

The evidence is there if you look. It's whether you want to accept it as evidence or not and you yourself don't want to. The thing about God is that he is like a shy lover so he won't force himself onto you if you're not interested.

And I didn't get from the Bible or a church, either.

If you have Western cultural values you ultimately have Christian values. Some of them have eroded a little but it's still intact. We may even be closer to what Christ taught now than we were in the theocratic middle ages.

[Captain Colostomy]

Out here in the real world, this is known as confirmation bias.

The evidence is there if you look. It's whether you want to accept it as evidence or not and you yourself don't want to. The thing about God is that he is like a shy lover so he won't force himself onto you if you're not interested.

Eeeww.

Your definition of evidence differs from mine, and your definition of god is just creepy.

[Sword of Christ]

Eeeww.

Your definition of evidence differs from mine, and your definition of god is just creepy.

You can compare it to a romantic relationship, see the Song of Songs in the Old Testament. Mystics throughout the ages have seen that as an allegory for the love you can experience toward God in a relationship with him or her he doesn't have a specific gender as such, or you could say he has both masculine and feminine aspects.

And perhaps your evidence consists of a bunch of atheist books and scientific books written from the atheists perspective. What you want is evidence from a different source.

Christianity invented not a single one of these moral elements. It is accurate to say that I share moral qualities which are (in theory if rarely in practice) Christian. Let us also not forget that Christianity is derivative of a religion which espouses many of the opposite traits, calling for death, slavery and persecution in many forms, and does not repudiate any of those teachings.

I didn't say it did I'm saying Christianity is from God (as are the other religions to certain degree) and these are objective standards that come from God not inventions of the human mind or cultural fabrications but a reality of some kind. And we of course have the independent freewill to accept or reject this standard.

Morality (and human civilization, which could not exist without moral concepts) predates your God by millennia.

God was always there he didn't just suddenly appear one day the day Christianity arrived on the scene. People perception of him was imperfect and there was a tendency to worship idols and this is what Bible/Christ corrects.

I resent the arrogance you have every time you dismiss the east. I assure you plenty of people live outside of your country. I grew up in asia, in a muslim country, went to a chinese school and was taught chinese philosophy's idea of morality. Plenty of people live there. Your god isn't a big deal there. Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism are the big religions in my region. Christianity is big is some countries, sure, but not mine. Are we without morals? Do we not exist?

You will find God in the other religions I just think you will find more of God in Christianity. What Jesus taught was certainly very very close to the Eastern Masters. Islam is a close cousin to Christianity though I would see it as a slight corruption of what it ought to be, it's focus is more on worldly state controlled authoritarian rule. Jesus never taught anything of that sort.