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Ace: If you were to act in a way that only the christian God would respond to you wouldn't that distinguish Him from others? EG: if you are in church praying to the Christian God and that is answered. Obivously something more definite than that though
chatpilot: Why do you seem to have such a hate for God and Christianity?
Tiberius: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
(November 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm)solarwave Wrote: Tiberius: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
Did you ever see the movie "V"?
The message was clear that giving in to the needs of a seemingly benevolent race of advanced aliens might seem good for humanity because of the advance in technology. It looks great at the beginning but ultimatly will end up putting us in the position to be their food and labor source.
Quote:Tiberius: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
You lose all of that wasted time... if we only have one life
(November 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm)solarwave Wrote: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
If it were a hypothetical being of enormous (but not omnipotent) power, and it started making demands out of me, such that I would lose my life, everything I cared about, all to "follow" it when all it really wanted was to trick people and get more power, then I would lose everything.
So let me assume that you would believe in this being, since you don't seem to think you'd lose anything. What if God (the Christian God, or Allah, or whoever) existed, and this being claimed to be him. You believe, and then when you die you get sent to Hell because this being isn't the God he claimed to be, and you worshiped and idol rather than a true God. You lose everything again.
November 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm (This post was last modified: November 4, 2009 at 4:07 pm by solarwave.)
(November 4, 2009 at 12:35 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote:
(November 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm)solarwave Wrote: Tiberius: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
Did you ever see the movie "V"?
The message was clear that giving in to the needs of a seemingly benevolent race of advanced aliens might seem good for humanity because of the advance in technology. It looks great at the beginning but ultimatly will end up putting us in the position to be their food and labor source.
Rhizo
Nope I havn't. Because if a nearly god-like being wanted us as slaves we could resist him anyway? Many christians have lived good lives and havn't been turned into cans of food for aliens
(November 4, 2009 at 1:14 pm)Saerules Wrote:
Quote:Tiberius: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
You lose all of that wasted time... if we only have one life
What would you rather do with your time that is much more fulfilling and purposeful than following God then? To be honest if I turned atheist I wouldn't mind others being christians because when lived properly it gives meaning to life than an atheist life and on atheist thinking the only reason to do anything is because you want to (since there is no higher duty). Im not saying you should believe because of that, just a fact.
(November 4, 2009 at 2:31 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(November 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm)solarwave Wrote: If it seems so much like God than you cant tell the difference what do you lose my beliving that? If you are wrong you are no worse off than by being atheist.
If it were a hypothetical being of enormous (but not omnipotent) power, and it started making demands out of me, such that I would lose my life, everything I cared about, all to "follow" it when all it really wanted was to trick people and get more power, then I would lose everything.
So let me assume that you would believe in this being, since you don't seem to think you'd lose anything. What if God (the Christian God, or Allah, or whoever) existed, and this being claimed to be him. You believe, and then when you die you get sent to Hell because this being isn't the God he claimed to be, and you worshiped and idol rather than a true God. You lose everything again.
Well you would gain the same fate as me in that case so I dont lose anymore than you.
To people in general: Just to point out something in general to people here, what you say does make me think, Im not so hard to what you have to say as it may seem since I tend to be in a constant flux between considering atheism and complete devotion to God..... can be good for me
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
November 4, 2009 at 4:31 pm (This post was last modified: November 4, 2009 at 4:35 pm by Violet.)
Quote:What would you rather do with your time that is much more fulfilling and purposeful than following God then? To be honest if I turned atheist I wouldn't mind others being christians because when lived properly it gives meaning to life than an atheist life and on atheist thinking the only reason to do anything is because you want to (since there is no higher duty). Im not saying you should believe because of that, just a fact.
Hmm, the list is so long. Things I would rather do than waste my time worshiping or even believing in a nonexistent being:
Making money,
having sex,
playing video games,
reading good books,
chatting with my friends,
socializing in environments where I can be myself,
thinking about the nature of things,
listening to good music,
looking at good artwork,
taking a relaxing stroll somewhere,
writing a book,
being able to be a skeptic (agnostic existentialist, and moral nihilist),
take a relaxing/erotic bath, clean up a house,
cook up something simple (yet delicious),
set up mischievous pranks,
make music,
watch a good movie,
learn some new vocabulary by trying to read newspapers in non-english languages,
read comics,
play with Legos or building blocks of some sort,
absent-mindedly play with 'children's toys,
dance (in utter seclusion so as not to embarrass myself ),
stretch out,
sleep (with the light off),
cuddle with someone I like,
take online quizzes (and esp. phycological exams of many kinds [I the ink blot, and the personality tests]),
go on a romantic date somewhere,
begin my 'transition?',
get into collage,
study Russian under a fantastic teacher,
go to Iceland,
fill a tire with gasoline (light a match and roll it down a cliff ),
'beautify' myself in the morning,
theorycraft the best video game stats,
think about and discuss video game strategy,
play a strategy-centric board game,
find out how to play Master of Orion once again,
go shopping,
sleeping in on Sundays,
etc.
As you can see... there is a lot of thing that I would rather be doing than following 'God'. Why should I ever do something that I don't have any good reason to do...?
(November 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm)solarwave Wrote: ...To be honest if I turned atheist I wouldn't mind others being christians because when lived properly...
Solarwave,
BINGO! "When lived properly" sums up the success of any system; socialism, capitalism, religion, science etc. The problem is how to define that concept. What is proper?
According to my understanding all people need to come to an agreement to form a social contract that will be changed according to how well that contract meets the needs of the people. This would be decided democratically with success being measured statistically based on GDP, economic distribution, happiness polls, whatever...
According to Theists there is an objective Good that needs to be pursued and they think they understand it based on some ancient writings and feelings inside their head.
Ideas that I have about right and wrong hold only the weight of my own understanding whereas most Christians I know believe that God supports their view of the world and when you have God on your side why would you ever listen to the ideas of a puny mortal?
Rhizo Wrote:Ideas that I have about right and wrong hold only the weight of my own understanding whereas most Christians I know believe that God supports their view of the world and when you have God on your side why would you ever listen to the ideas of a puny mortal?
Therein lies the danger of religion.
And especially considering that there is no god actually talking to them (in things like prayer)... all the person 'hears' is themself... and that can be all the more dangerous.
That was the silent point I was making. Hopefully anyone reading my words would comprehend that I don't think there is a god so they will conclude that it is the thought of God backing a person that can blind and deafen them to human influence.
I heard the silent point from the radio in my fingernail Of course, theistic people don't get the broadcast... so they may not pick up on it Luckily, I wrote it in a form that might be visible to them
the ink blot, and the personality tests]), 
Luckily, I wrote it in a form that might be visible to them 